All electric heating/water

[Hitch]

I'll be doing some serious work on a property in the foreseeable future, location rules out mains gas systems.

Currently a 3 bed bungalow, but will end up 4 bed, 2 bathroom.
Currently has night storage heaters and copper hot water cylinder.

We've lived with all electric before, using night storage for background heat and portable heaters for a top up. Coped fine with this, and not noticed it being unbelievably expensive as some report.

Now for the last year, we've been spoiled, with gas central heating, coupled with solar water heating. We like the way the heat is there on demand...

As we will be doing fairly serious work, moving/updating the hot water/heating make sense...but what sort of system?
Room heating, what are these more modern electric radiator things like?
All electric combi boilers, with standard sort of wet system....?

 

[brightspark]

trouble is with those electric radiators or any other panel heater if they don't run on off peak half price electric they cost a fortune to run . be the same with the electric boiler running it during the day

 

[addjunkie]

You could goelectric boiler, with perhaps a heat store tank, in the heat store tank, have an emersion supplied by excess from solar panels( you can get a gadget that basically zaps any export electricity into you heat tank) also possibly supplemented by solar water heating.

Our system though base oil fired is also heated by a back boiler on the log burner. Basically system holds enough heat to last till tea time next day if the fire has been on in the evening.

If your prepared to go far enough, id go underfloor heating with water, simplistically put with an electriic boiler you only need to heat the system to about 40 degrees max so more energy efficient.

Or look into RHI. And go logs or pellet boilers

 

[123hotchef]

I would go oil fired boiler

 

[rtbcomp]

Be careful with Economy 7, mine started out at 50% of the full tariff and then suddenly became 75%.

Don't see the point of electric boilers, you waste the heat left in the boiler & pipes when the pump stops. If you want a heat store simply add more storage heaters.

 

[Hitch]

We lived with all electric before for 8 years, and didn't find it all that much more expensive tbh.

Oil fired, i'm a bit put off by that, know a few people that have it, and most of them don't like it, especially the sporadic oil prices....

 

[brightspark]

if I had to id just get creda or dimplex nightstores and off peak emersion heater in tank and economy 7 tarrif through the cheapest supplier

 

[Hitch]

Be careful with Economy 7, mine started out at 50% of the full tariff and then suddenly became 75%.

Don't see the point of electric boilers, you waste the heat left in the boiler & pipes when the pump stops. If you want a heat store simply add more storage heaters.

I'm not all that clued up on c/h systems, but thats the same as any boiler based system...surely?

Not that interested in stored heat, more on heat on demand.

To a point, i'd happily have a higher bill if i could get the heat I want where and when I want it.

 

[brightspark]

I'm not all that clued up on c/h systems, but thats the same as any boiler based system...surely?

Not that interested in stored heat, more on heat on demand.

To a point, i'd happily have a higher bill if i could get the heat I want where and when I want it.

wall panel heaters on timers and thermostats if u get a reasonable day rate tarrif

 

[rtbcomp]

I'm not all that clued up on c/h systems, but thats the same as any boiler based system...surely?
....

Yes, but with electric storage heaters you generate heat where you want it, with gas you generate heat in one place and you have no choice but to pipe it to where it's needed.

Personally I'd go for insulation and storage heaters, even if the cost per KWh was greater you don't get any risk from CO, boiler faults and replacements, the cost of which has to be factored in. I suspect storage heaters are cheaper to install, there's no plumbing (or leaks) and if you use local time switches no extra wiring.

I like the idea of heat pumps, but I'd want to do a lot of research into reliability and maintenance costs, and the air/ground is always colder when you need the heat.

 

[wookie]

another option is a calor gas type tank

The problem with that is your tied to Calor, at least with oil you can shop around a bit to get the best price.

@Hitch what are you doing for cooking ? Always preferred a gas hob so we use Calor bottles for that but oil for heating here as it works out cheaper than electric heating, plus I have a genny so when we get a power cut that can run all the lights & the boiler so we are warm.

Personally I'd go for insulation and storage heaters

I'd always go for as much insulation as possible, sure it's money upfront but it'll save you money in the long run. I've fancied underfloor heating and those I know with it swear by it, but it's a lot more work to do.

 

[captain-destructo]

if I had to id just get creda or dimplex nightstores and off peak emersion heater in tank and economy 7 tarrif through the cheapest supplier

as above but add
wood burning stove in the living room with a back boiler
aga / rayburn in the kitchen with a back boiler

and a couple of rads to stop the tank boiling over
or
pellet boiler

 

[Hitch]

Back boiler? I could get myself a tin bath to stick infront of the log burner too

 

[gaz1]

as above wood boiler and solar if i get my way with things

im already upto building a rocket stove boiler if it ccan give out 1500+ with water connected to it that will more than do for one log a day running for 4 hrs +

 

[rtbcomp]

Back boiler? I could get myself a tin bath to stick infront of the log burner too

That's Northism!

 

[dobbslc]

I'm interested in this as I'm just about to move into a house with an ancient oil fired boiler that'll need replacing soon.
What are the ground source heat pumps about?
Do they give good heat in the depths of winter?

 

[fizzy]

I used to live in an 800 year old farmhouse on the top of the Brecon Beacons. The walls were literally 5' thick downstairs. It was really remote so no access for oil. Heating was via a Rayburn which ran 8 rads. I used to burn hardwood pallet blocks in that. I also had a huge woodburner which took the pallet bearers. I literally went through a 1 ton builders bag a day! I also used 3 night storage heaters on Economy 7. After 4 years and paying £100 a month on electric I ended up with a final bill of £1700!!! Electric for heating is a huge no no.
I have just moved to another farmhouse which dates to the 1600s but has been modernised to a high standard. It is a 5 bedroom house so pretty big. I was worried as it has an oil fired boiler running wait for it - 23 rads! As the wood was free in my old place I was dreading the bills. I do have a small wood burner here which heats the main living room. I bought 1000L of oil when I moved in which was December. I have about 500L left! In other words £400 for a years heating on a big house isn't bad!

Oil works out about 4p per kw - gas about 5p and Electric at least 8p on Economy 7 and 16p in the day.

Oil prices are unlikely to go up much as the Yanks are getting so much from shale. OPEC tried to force a price rise but the Yanks just brought on more shale wells. It is a different story with electric. We are paying through the nose for renewables and worse it's getting.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I'd avoid air source heat pumps unless you have an efficient house (well insulated), there have been lots of horror stories about people being pressurised into getting one fitted to unsuitable properties and finding them incredibly expensive to run.
The one that sticks in my head is the pensioner who had her night storage heaters taken out and an ASHP fitted to her 1800's detached cottage on the advice of a British Gas Sales Rep and her electricity bill quadrupled. She ended up not being able to afford to run the ASHP so was living in one room with a fan heater.

 

[addjunkie]

I refurbished our place, 1700s farm house, badly rebuilt in the 60s, moving back in 3 years ago. I researched heat pumps. One guy I used to work with offshore packed in to install them full time, another living in a house like mine has one too.
What I learnt you end up with big leccy bills if not set up properly as they have an imersion heater to supplement the ground. They work best with underfloor heating as the water in the system only needs to be 30ish degrees, waste of time with radiators. And what scared me even more....you need an archieologist while you dig, and if the find anything job stops till they are finished.

We to use about 400 liters of oil a year, but that is supplemented by wood via the log burner with a back boiler. 4 bed two bathroom house. If you can qualify for comercial RHI pellet boilers are worth considering, but with RHI the less insulation in your house the more you get paid, bizzare heating the sky. The domestic RHI isnt so good only pays out for 7 years, but would buy you the system. Only down side with the pellet systems I can see is the size of storage hopper required to keep pellet delivery costs down. Boilers them selves are very simple.

A heat store tank in effect becomes your heating source (think boiler) and you can put heat into it in multiple ways, worth considering if you want to use solar pv and solar water, efficiently. Like I said earlier with ours in winter when the fire is lit at night, it heats the house and hot water for the next day till the fire is lit again. We dont have solar pv panels but a friend does and in the summer his boiler never cuts in with a heatstore taking the generated free electric and he still gets the feed in tariff but uses all the electric through a magic box that measures what hes exporting and switches emersion on instead, called an optimsiser or something. Consideting this my self when I progress the holiday lets.

Underloor heating.."Id not go back...even heat throughout a room, no huddling close to radiators. No radiators to decorate behind, no radiators getting in the way of where she wants the sideboard. And cheaper to run as its more efficient. Yes it was alot of work, but worth it.

 

[GKQ]

My 2 cents, Here in NZ we use heat pumps, some of them work down to -15C with full output. Our unit is a Fujitsu, puts out 6kw of heat for 2kw input ( also air con in the summer ! ) Ground source heat pumps are great if installed correctly the pipe needs to be the correct depth down.
We have a wood burner as well the hest pump is just a top up really. I also have a home made solar system that heats the water and house, so have covered every option.
Biggest and most important item with heating is insulation, the more the better do it once and over do it. Pays for itself over and over.
Graham