Air Source Heat Pump

[Bornfree]

you could... but there's not much point, ground source is so much more efficient and reliable than air source, especially with bore holes where (I had to google to double check my numbers here) - the bore hole water temperature is higher than air temperature most of the year here in the uk

The water temperature from our irrigation bore is normally 11° summer and winter.

 

[knighty]

its why i didnt bring it up however if your boring then the surrounding propertys should share it and pay the owner and this should be factored into it

same with the sand heater that runs a small city

i dont like bore holes its bad enough with mine shafts how many holes do we need in the ground under us before we say enough

it's just a hole straight down.... not that wide either... not much to worry about

better than a trench with water/power/gas/whatever in

 

[Farside]

That looks lovely set against that sandstone wall...

If you can afford one of those, you live in a house with several walls where it won't be noticed, out of sight.

 

[Rannsachair]

Looked into a heap pump myself a couple years ago and working in other peoples houses occasionally come across people with them fitted and I always ask the owners what they think of them and I can honestly say i've not ran into anyone that absolutely loved it yet, same complaint over and over again that its pants in winter.

It's unfortunate that the only people i've heard rave about them either sell them or fit them. I'm sure there are some excellent working installations out there, in a perfect house, somewhere. It just seems that the bad far outweighs the good from what i've seen so far. So i'm staying clear!

I am really happy with my air source heating. Mitsubishi Ecodan installed 4 years ago in a 15 year old house. Similar experience to my neighbours.

We are in a remote area with no gas and almost all houses fitted with storage heaters. The airsource gives me a warmer house with better control at reduced cost. I was lucky I got an interest free loan for the installation through the Scottish Government and recoup most of the money in quarterly payments from Ofgem domestic RHI.

I have had no issues, it was a painless install: taking out the storage heaters, fitting radiators, pipes etc was done in one day then a half day to test and fit insulation on the pipes.

I think it depends on your circumstances, compared to storage heaters and with a reasonably well insulated house it can work fine, I would not change back.

I am aware of some folk locally not happy with it in older poorly insulated homes.

 

[DAPPH]

I think i'll bite the bullet this year and rip out the air source and fit a combi running off propane with an underground tank.

The quotes to make good the ASHP system are huge, and i'm not convinced throwing more money at it will fully resolve.

LPG is just about the most expensive form of boiler fed central heating you can get .

 

[DAPPH]

Quite unbelievable my post appears to have been deleted as I broached an unpalatable truth.

ASHP work fine if the building is fit for it. I know a number of folk who've built their own places and exceeded passive house standards in some cases. Paul said his place is well insulated and to current regs. Unfortunately mass builders don't necessarily understand the importance of getting insulation and airtightness right and results are often fudged for sign off. The folk I know are anal about it. The result is an ASHP that works and really well. Some even use theirs for slab cooling in summer.

Got an acquaintance a hundred yards from here who has had his family tradesmen build his super efficient recirculated filtered air GSHP powered system . last time I saw him in winter two years ago he reckoned his monthly heating bill was below £20 .

I was impressed when I saw the certifying engineers pump up the house and see that it was holding the pressure tests for almost double the required time.

 

[DAPPH]

You posted endlessly regurgitated and irrelevant nonsense

This post (as you now state) involves a new build, yet you continue with the nonsense

Fabric first is important, but understanding system design, building use and heat pumps is much more important

I have installed and I am currently planning to install heat pumps in buildings that are scheduled ancient monuments, the ones that need the secretary of state's approval to work in

We categorically cannot alter the fabric, yet the heat pumps work exactly as designed, providing the correct level of comfort and hot water, while removing the need for fossil fuels

To be fair, the design alone probably costs 10 X that of a domestic install, but yeah, fabric first is the only approach

Isn't what you are really talking about simply putting in a massive calculated size heat pump to compensate for building inefficiencies and heat losses to a temp of minus 15 oC or so ?

 

[DAPPH]

Yes, you can do a cascade system. The usual approach is an air source first then a water source, but there would be no reason you couldn't use any 2 technologies together based on site requirements

I'm still involved in ground source, just do a lot more as well these days

Working on a 1.5MW system right now, boreholes will be going under a rugby pitch before it is relaid

Have you done any boreholes inside a new build flooring plan say five or six boreholes linked to a control manifold etc. Saw one such system being installed as an experimental set up in a new build ..don't know the follow up results . do you have any information on such things ?

 

[Kayos]

Isn't what you are really talking about simply putting in a massive calculated size heat pump to compensate for building inefficiencies and heat losses to a temp of minus 15 oC or so ?

No, because at the point there isn't a net energy saving the project is pointless. Most gas and oil heating is massively oversized

 

[Kayos]

Have you done any boreholes inside a new build flooring plan say five or six boreholes linked to a control manifold etc. Saw one such system being installed as an experimental set up in a new build ..don't know the follow up results . do you have any information on such things ?

Yes, I have fitted many systems like this, they are not experimental, rather proven working systems

 

[DAPPH]

Yes, I have fitted many systems like this, they are not experimental, rather proven working systems

Got any company names to look at that you'd use?

 

[Kayos]

Kensa Contracting, and Hex Energy are 2 I know well

I used to work for Kensa

 

[Mikes]

Received the attached flyer the other day from an 'expert' company pushing heat pumps. I've blanked their details in case you were all keen to rush and order an installation from them. The bit that really sealed the deal for me was the 'Environmentally Friendly' statement where they state that they 'don't use fossil fuels' . This unfortunately is the sort of fiction that some companies make to sell their wares. Also misleading as they are pushing air to air heat pumps as they can provide cooling. Systems that can provide cooling are not considered green or renewable.
Every time there is a green energy push, the unscrupulous jump on the bandwagon as they view it as a cash cow.
There was an item on the radio the other week where a house owner had bought a solar pv installation for their house. They rightly used an approved installer so that there would be no problem with their electric supplier accepting the feed-in tariff. Unfortunately the installer was still purporting to be an approved installer but had actually been thrown out of the association for bad practice. The home owner was then left with an installation that was worthless as they could not get a feed-in tariff accepted. There only apparent option was to have it junked and installed by another contractor even though the system was actually working. Have to be so careful when parting with your money!

 

[Mikes]

Likely just needs certificating - unless the installer made a mess of it.

True that air-to-air heat pumps are not considered as acceptable for the government subsidies. I think it is likely a technicality - possibly due to the cooling option - but an ASHP is no different on the collection side, whatever medium it uses on the other side?

Whoever that company, you mentioned, might be, I would be selecting a more honest one (if I were in that market) - and checking out any claims very thoroughly before purchase.

Apparently it was not acceptable to the electricity supply company and the poor purchaser really was stuck with a system that although functioning was not giving him a feed-in tariff return. He thought that he had done his due diligence by using what appeared to be an approved registered contractor. With hindsight, a phone call to the association might have saved him a lot of grief but it is probably not something you would think of as necessary (until now). An expensive lesson learned for him but a good warning to others.

 

[reb78]

Apparently it was not acceptable to the electricity supply company and the poor purchaser really was stuck with a system that although functioning was not giving him a feed-in tariff return. He thought that he had done his due diligence by using what appeared to be an approved registered contractor. With hindsight, a phone call to the association might have saved him a lot of grief but it is probably not something you would think of as necessary (until now). An expensive lesson learned for him but a good warning to others.

I really want to install solar. I have acres of roof space on the house and sheds but stories like this just put me off. The market seems solely made up of cowboy installers! How do you pick a good company??

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

The market seems solely made up of cowboy installers!

Chancers are everywhere unfortunately

I usually look on companies house...not fool proof but gives you a very good idea I think.

 

[Gareth J]

I really want to install solar. I have acres of roof space on the house and sheds but stories like this just put me off. The market seems solely made up of cowboy installers! How do you pick a good company??

Do it yourself?

You can even, if you get a helpful MCS installer, DIY them pay them to sign it off. MCS is now worth it again as electric companies are paying ~10-20p per exported unit. Octopus is trialling accepting non MCS registered installs now too I believe.

 

[DAPPH]

I really want to install solar. I have acres of roof space on the house and sheds but stories like this just put me off. The market seems solely made up of cowboy installers! How do you pick a good company??

What's wrong with constructing your own stand alone and charging up batteries then inverting it for 240 volts when needed in the home workshop on red dedicated switched wall sockets ( like my stand by genny wiring ) Talk with Fizzy to learn what he proposes in his place in Portugal .
I'm pals with a 10 acre small holder , he's out in the sticks they are entirely dependent on solar charged batteries and have a small back up diesel genny for low light days . Getting an electricity board supply was quoted at nearly £26 K

 

[Gareth J]

I really want to install solar. I have acres of roof space on the house and sheds but stories like this just put me off. The market seems solely made up of cowboy installers! How do you pick a good company??

Solar PV Installations

We have been installing Solar PV since 2006, our commercial experience has covered every aspect of Solar PV projects, from the initial enquiry through to design, planning, grid connection, installation, commissioning and ongoing O&M.

www.naturalgen.co.uk

I used this company for two projects ~10-12 yes ago, had contact for a good while afterwards with servicing and they were always good to deal with. Still in business anyway, which is a good sign! MoleEnergy should also operate in your area and have a good reputation.

Good installers will focus on European inverters and high end panels, to limit problems. Comes at a cost.

 

[Red'n'Black]

I really want to install solar. I have acres of roof space on the house and sheds but stories like this just put me off. The market seems solely made up of cowboy installers! How do you pick a good company??

I can't offer any advice, other than don't use the company that came cold-calling on my Gran. In southwest Scotland, where it's overcast for much of the year.

They easiest pitch of the roof to get at from the road was across the top of the garage, so that's where they installed it. In other words, facing North.

Don't know if it would have ever paid for itself but she popped her clogs a few years later so we never found out. My Dad, who's normally an enthusiast for this stuff, was fuming when he found out but it was all legally watertight so there was nothing he could do.

Be careful out there...