Agricultural welding!!

[Tractor Dave]

Hi!
Just thinking..... (dangerous i know) to the future, i've only just bought my Migmate but thinking of up-grading next year...... do you think for an agricultural situation a suitable thickness of steel to weld would be around 7-8mm? And i presume we're talking about 200amps for this sort of thickness?
I have a SIP at the moment, but i've seen the reviews, so with a budget of £200-250 what sort of make would be preferable??
Sorry if you've heard this question all too often before!
Cheers tractor dave.

 

[shenion]

More than double your budget to get a decent MIG.

A Clarke 180EN might do (might require multiple pass welds.) Maybe the 220T. But you are approaching what a PortaMIG would cost and the Clarke's tend to have a low duty cycle. Good DIY machines though.

PM weldequip he sells PortaMIG and Clarke.

The only other option on a budget is an arc welder for the thick stuff and your cheap MIG for thin stuff.

 

[Tractor Dave]

ok, cheers for the advice shenion! I am right in saying multiple pass welds arn't as strong as a single pass? I'll have to see about learning to stick weld or get lucky on ebay!

 

[shenion]

Milti-pass can be just as strong if done right.

Yes, keep an eye on ebay. I did for about 4 months before finding the deal of a century on a truckload of welders

Stick takes lots of practice, but is inexpensive.

 

[snowcat]

I am right in saying multiple pass welds arn't as strong as a single pass? I'll have to see about learning to stick weld or get lucky on ebay!

yes and err no, Multiple pass beeds are a stronger and proper way of doing things, but the basic machine must be up to the job in the first place, and the type of passes the prep, and the tempreture's of the roots fill and caps, or stringers will change..

On you first question, for repair work, in ag/construnction a MIG is still not the best tool, plants are handy for new fabrication and thin work, but stick should still be your main machine, as much is outside, or not clean hard to prep, etc etc, As shenion said, a half sensible light industrial machine will set you back £500 new, If you know what your searching for and have 3ph avalible this will be a far better bet, true industrial machines, will offer much high duty cycles, and often a lower rated machine will be able to produce a much better weld....

Personaly I often have to mop up poor repairs on farms and, your see cold lap un preped joints, and material choice thats well (agricultural), Certainly Id hold fire at the moment and look out for something like a S/H Murex, Lincoln etc, a decent little inverter would be first on my shoping list.

 

[wyn]

what snowcat has said ,in my experience, is right. Stick welder and multiple passes. Working on static quarry plant we use 3.2 rods or 4mm (if things are really serious) for joining and patching anything up to 2" thick.

we have 400amp mig but only used about twice a year.

 

[Tractor Dave]

cheers for the advice snowcat and wyn, i'll look out for a decent sized stick welder (200 amp)!! I'll defantly look out for Murex or Lincoln, i've heard good reports about them, although looks like i'll have to save up or go to a used equipment sale with those prices! Are Clarke or Draper any good do you know? I think i might keep away from SIP as they have had some bad press (hope my sip welder works, haven't had chance to get any wire/gas for it yet )
Cheers again!

 

[shenion]

Ask weldewquip about the Clarke arc welders. I know they make two >200 amp ones. One is AC only, 240A, the other is 240AC and 180 DC. Both have about 30% duty cycle at max output. Should be fine for repair work.

A DC welder is cleaner with a more stable arc.

Arc welders are simple and don't really wear out unless used beyond their rated use. Used ones are cheap. I see a lot of the Lincoln 225A welders on ebay and craigs list. Usually go for $225. There is an AC/DC model that goes for a bit more used. They are nice welders for DIY use.

Then again a welder/generator would be ideal for field repairs

 

[Tractor Dave]

Cheers, yea i'll do that, the AC/DC sounds like the one to get (good band as well)!! lol
I think the generator will have to wait alittle!
I think i'll have to modify my trolley to take both welders! All good fun!

 

[snowcat]

What are you planing to do in the once youve left collage dave, a clarke would be fine for youre avarage ag/maintance come fitter, but if your gona get serious then the machine just wont have the gumption.

I do have a Genset, but the inverter is still king, as I often just use the inverter off the genset, they weld much nicer...

Oil cooled arcs will last a lifetime, but in all honesty have had there day, (not worn out) just D/C inverters are a dream to weld with, lightweight and you dont need a to plug into the grid to power one..

Its a job to recommend without knowing which areas of work you be getting into, but IMHO Id buy a nice little inverter now, and let the MIG wait, when you get a bit more cash and especialy if your going to be mobile the Kemmpi MiniarcMig is fantastic, and is hovering around the £500 mark.. which is an inverter based MIG.

 

[Tractor Dave]

I agree that the oil cooled arc welders are old technology, and rather large. The inverters do look impressive, and have many benerfits to the normal welder, although they are normally about double or triple the price of a good arc welder!
I restore old agricultural machinary, and tractors, with the aid of a good welder i'd like to take on bigger projects and modify a tractor or two. Although once i've left uni i'm planning on working for an Agricultual Engineers with whom i'm doing my placement year, and after who knows!
I appreciate the advice! Cheers!

 

[snowcat]

Who you working for at the moment what sort of work they into???? I only ask as Agricultural Engineer is a term that seams to describe everything, from man in van too sales dealership, I did a bit of training under Keeble brothers at SWF, proper ag engineers, although they do call them selfs welders..

 

[Tractor Dave]

Lathams Engineering (http://www.lathameng.com/) in Whitchurch, Cheshire, they make slurry spreaders, sweepers, tanks, post drivers as well as repair work and one off jobs, so quite a range of work! Thats what i like about it, you get to use a lot of different skills ie welding and machining.
Keeble brothers make subsoilers and a like don't they? What did you do there? Lathams don't do many soil engauging implements.... saying that there isn't much room and too much work on at the moment! lol

 

[zardoz]

I have a huge Oil cooled Oxford welder that weighs a bleedin ton! However if i were on a farm im sure i could wield it around the yard on a tractor or similar. The farm is the last bastion of the large oil cooled arc welder these days. And it does last a lifetime. Trouble is the price of copper is so high these days its making me wonder how much is in there, and maybe scrap it. Be a dam shame though.

 

[Tractor Dave]

Yea it would be a real shame! But how much oil is in it as the oil may weigh a bit? I'm sure a modification could be made for it to go on the lift arms or something!

 

[Drains]

Dave, it might be worth seeing what kind of deal the welding reps would offer you , through your work, for an inverter. Snowy will tell you how much less than list price you can pay, if the rep will take a drop on markup.

If you consider the deal a few of us got at Christmas on a Eutectic 140A inverter -£300 inc vat - and that was just a retail special, you could do at least as well. The high duty cycle on it means it'll run a 4mm rod, or 3.2's all day.

 

[Tractor Dave]

That inverter sounds like a good deal, especially for the duty cycle and rod size! I'll have to look into seeing if i can get any deals through work, although they don't use inverters! The amount of wire/gas they get through the rep, they must get some good deals!
I presume inverters work on single phase power??

 

[Drains]

Depends on the size! A 200A would probably be on 3 phase. That Eutectic runs on a 13A plug nae bother. Also has lift tig and pulse.... smart.

You could always try sucking up to Matt1978 - very helpful chap, bit of a wheel in the Lorch sales dept. He can put you in touch with the sales rep local to you, will almost certainly cut you a deal.

The eutectic was discussed at length here and here

It's only 3.4kg. The Lorch and Fronius sets are not dissimilar.

 

[Tractor Dave]

Buy 4 get one free, what a deal! Yea he sound like the sort of chap to know! lol
Ok, i'm sure i could sort a 3 phase out, and thats really light, it amazes me how they can get so much power out of such a small thing!
Cheers for the advice!

 

[Mikey D]

Hi Dave , is lathams engineering the same as maurice latham ? i went to the shop up there a couple of years ago a bit of an alladins cave , i see your allso a student at Harper adams college . ill be there in a couple of weeks making a start on there new rotary milking parlour . it doesnt seem like five minuites since i installed the parlour there using now ( although it was a mere8-9 years ago )
cheers mike