Aghhhhhhhhhhhhh, C&G Level 2 MMA

[AdrianH]

No not tried EN yet generally always stuck with EP. I doubt I will not get chance to try anything until Thursday night now as work kicks in tomorrow so cuts short playtime.

Thanks all for input would have been good to sort it before hand but looks like I will get tuition soon.

Adrian

 

[PTvor]

I doubt I will not get chance to try anything until Thursday night now as work kicks in tomorrow so cuts short playtime.

Work is the curse of the drinking classes.

 

[AdrianH]

Unfortunately I don’t drink either, well coffee, so I am an anti-social player in the garage geek.

Night night all!.

Adrian

 

[Turbo]

I have been getting further, but still having an issue, basically gone as a V with no face, spacing it out 1mm and tacking. Then when I start welding seems to get it correct, but then the metal closes up no mater what I do. Expect I may have to weld it apart using another couple of plates on the back, or start off with a 1 mm gap at one end and a larger gap at the other.

After setting the required gap between the pieces I assume you are putting in a good strong tack weld at both ends of the weld? These will stop the gap closing up.

I did a short welding course a few years ago and out of all the skills the one that everyone struggled with was the open vee butt. It's a very fine balance between working & blowing holes but once you've mastered it everything else seems easy. Stick at it, with practice it will come. Use your time at the college well & take advantage of the free rods & metal. If you ask nicely the tutor will probably not mind you taking home some practice pieces.

One thing you could do is bring in your own welder, after all it is what you will be using once the course is finished. You would need to check if you can do this first, the college may not allow you to use your own stuff.

 

[AdrianH]

I had another go at college Thursday night, still not got there, the instructor did a run and no penetration, so following his advice, I am slowly going for a wider gap, I do get the gap closing up as I go so it has been suggested that I do a run down the from the 1st quarter point to halfway let it cool, do the last quarter, go back to the first etc, said it may help stop me closing the gap as I just work from one end to the other.

I took in 10 lumps of metal pre-prepped, so at the end brought out 10 pieces and will have these prepared for the next night.

I have some more 50 x 6 at home home that I will prep and use at home for practice. probably Monday/Tuesday. In the mean time with all these buts of holed, partially welded bits of scrap, I am putting these together at lap joints and having a practice at vertical up with them. Again I tried initially 3.2mm but dropped down to 2.5 rather quickly, with a current range of 70 to 90 Amps I find I am running them at 65 Amps, some times I get it some times I do not, some times I miss an edge and do not get penetration into the face,, I hope I get down into the root, after more practice I will saw one through in a few places and check. Going through the notes for the course found on here, it does not mention if the lap joint is single run or multirun. I think single run and also think I should be on 3.2, but for the time being I will practice on 2.5 and when I can hold the rod stable enough, possibly move up a size.

The Lincoln Electric 2.5mm rods I am using are probably 12 plus years old and the flux coating is shedding a white powder, so I have some ESAB OK46.30 on order so I can practice as per the ones at college. Hope they arrive Monday Thanks for your information PTvor I went with Highland Industrial supplies in the end, 3.2 and 2.5 on there way down.

I am also trying to figure out how to film what I am doing, but struggling in some what with the camera needing to work with such a range of bright arc and normal light. I have even tried putting a spare helmet in front of the lens, but just too dark when I try this. I will cobble something together, then you can see if I make any progress via a Youtube video or sommat!

Cheers

Adrian

 

[justin]

When i did my level 2 we would preset the root gap at 2.5 at the start and about 4mm at the end

 

[HughF]

Do yourself a favour and get some 6011... I know I sound like a stuck record, but if you want to do open root, use the right rod for the job.

 

[AdrianH]

When i did my level 2 we would preset the root gap at 2.5 at the start and about 4mm at the end

I guess I have been closing 1.5 to 2mm gaps by then end of the weld, so I will try.

Do yourself a favour and get some 6011... I know I sound like a stuck record, but if you want to do open root, use the right rod for the job.

I don't want to call you a broken record Hugh, but, I feel as though I have to do it with what is provided,. I can very well imagine that a fast freeze could help it solidify but at the moment it is the penetrating through to the other side without either dropping a large hole, or not getting through at all that is my issue. I am suffering from not understanding the weld pool or sometimes even seeing it.

I will continue to practice as much as I can, post the odd crappy video and hope you all can give pointers, or something to try. One idea must fit with me some time.

Adrian

 

[wheresmejumper]

Do yourself a favour and get some 6011... I know I sound like a stuck record, but if you want to do open root, use the right rod for the job.

Its a completely different technique to use 6011,if he's instructed to use 6013 so be it.itll stand to him when doing the same fit up with 7018

there are a few ways to stop the end of the plates closing as the weld progresses.
easiest is get a piece of steel roughly 2x1 inches and tack them securely to both plates.bordering on completely welding in place
poor pic but all i can find without drawing up


The second way is bullet tacks,but is more suitable to tig welding.
place a piece of round bar,or bare rod,tig rod etc,in the bevel,half way up the bevel,and tack in place.itll do the same job as above

 

[wheresmejumper]

Pick a gap,2-2.5mm and stick to it

 

[HughF]

Well, 6010/11 will help with all the problems you are having, the flux is minimal, all you can see is weld metal, no slag. They freeze fast so you can whip out and control your keyhole, and they penetrate like a...... Penetrative thing so if the gap closes up you can jam it in there, provided you have a decent v/a curve the arc length manipulation will sort out the tight gap.

6013 has none of these qualities which make it a rubbish rod for open root, unless you like making a job 100 times harder than it should be. All the open root I've done, I've done with 6010/11. jam it in, wait for the sound, drag it along...

 

[HughF]

Actually, what machine are you using to do this with?

 

[AdrianH]

Actually, what machine are you using to do this with?

At the college I use a Thermal Arc Arc Master 200 TS

At home using my R-Tech TIG 161

Adrian

 

[wheresmejumper]

6013 and 7018 are rubbish for open root,maybe to someone who cant use them.they both need the same technique.
search flange jockey on here and look at his work,maybe tell him what you think?

 

[AdrianH]

easiest is get a piece of steel roughly 2x1 inches and tack them securely to both plates.bordering on completely welding in place
poor pic but all i can find without drawing up

I can see that stopping the metal closing up, I can always saw up some 6 mm left overs and weld to the ends, just as a flat run. Will try Monday. TA.

Adrian

 

[HughF]

Crank your arc force to the maximum. At least then if you need to short arc to get the current to ramp up, the arc won't go out on you.

 

[AdrianH]

I need a more powerful PC for this video editing lark, took me hours to get to this:-

Adrian

 

[AdrianH]

I had a strange day, my rods arrived from HIS, unfortunately I got two boxes of 3.2mm rods so the shop is sending me out some 2.5 rods, hope to get these soon.

I had another go at the Flat V weld again, not fantastic, but slightly better for me, used metal bit welded to the ends and had a root face of 2mm and a gap of 2.5mm.


This is the back face of the piece, you can see the metal tabs welded on the ends. They did not sop the gap closing went from 2.5mm starting on the left to to 1mm at the end on the right.
Picture now reversed with the slag cleaned off, where the gap was still 2.5mm'ish I could penetration through the root, when I went back for the second and third runs, no pen.


Now this looks crap, it is the top side of the plate looking at the scabby slag coating, full of holes.



Anyway cleaned the slag off and practised a capping weld over the top with a 3.2mm rod.

I think I will go and get some Murex rods in 2.5mm and try with them see if I have better coating with new rods: These are the old rods I am using

Think I will stick them in the oven for a while, but think the coating is suffering a bit.

Also

Do you think I need a new mask?


Would love to get a few comments on the plate, Think I will start with 2.5mm one end and 4mm at the other and give that a go next time, the cooling of the weld bent the end pieces!

Adrian

 

[wheresmejumper]

Flip the end pieces,so your looking at the 6mm x 50mm side view.it shouldnt bend that way
you got off to a promising start but the shrinking gap will screw any welder.
it is evident that you are not prepping the restarts properly though.for a low penetrating rod like 6013,feather 25mm.it gives you plenty time to get the next run hot enough to penetrate seamlessly. Take time to prep the last 6ish mm carefully. When grinding the end of the feather,the steel will turn blue just before it completely erodes.when you see the blue tint you know to stop grinding. Ill say it again to make a point,take as long as it takes to feather properly,it is essential to get right

 

[HughF]

how long are the tacks you;re putting in? 15-20 mm should stop it closing up, feather the ends of the tack with a grinder so you can get penetration when you run onto and off them... have you watched any open root video's on youtube for pointers? (pretty much every video will be 6010, but it might help)