Again fronius verses Kemppi

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning gents
Yes it does seem odd. The fronius guys in my area have got their nose out of joint as I have gotten quotes from other areas. There is one company which imports the machines to AU and uses distributors around the country. It is apparently taboo to sell into someone else's area, also there is so many options that you cannot seem to get your head around what you are getting. Some one tells you that 'this is what you need' and some one else says no 'this is what you need. Also the cost does vary significantly. I am getting pi@#ed off that there is so much confusion, and am starting to believe it may be deliberate to get more money. It seem that gone are the days when you rolled up got a machine and left to play. I was settled on the fronius TPS320i, but now am so pi@#$d of that I will give Kemppi and BOC the EWM another go for demos.
The local fronius dealer is not happy as they claim that they have invested time to demo the machine to me so they should get the sale. What they seem to fail to understand that I know the machine is capable to do what I want, I wanted to see if the people that I am getting the machine from are capable enough so if I have a problem they can solve it for me. The machine is only as good as the person tweeking the knobs. This at least so far is in the fronius's favour.
I will visit the local distributor again to iron out the details, however am sceptical now.

Matt1978 the euro connector/ adaptor for the TPS320i from my understanding before today was just like changing fronius torches. You just remove the fronius torch, fit in the froinus to euro connector into the machine and connect your euro torch. This seem not to be correct after my discussion. So the question remains what is the connector / adaptor like and the method to change from fronius to euro like

 

[Jim Davey]

It is possible to swap, I've done several over the years but they don't make it easy, access is pretty tight.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning Jim
Just so I am clear. There is no such thing as a fronius into the welder to euro out. Please let me be specific, the fronius guns are (fsc) or something like that, which is a bayonet type connection. The mig gun pushes into the mount inside the machine, a clamp or lever then holds the mig gun in place. From my understanding there was a (fsc) to euro convertor, which connected into the standard fronius mig gun mount, then you could just screw your euro mig gun into it. Is this the case or have I been misled.

 

[Jim Davey]

That I couldn't tell you, all I know is I have removed several Fronius bayonet socket fittings and replaced them with a conventional Euro socket to enable me to fit economical torches to my hire machines as I got sick of clients bemoaning the prices of torch spares and repairs.

 

[6 milli billi]

Hi Henry
Have you had a response or demo date from EWM (BOC) yet? if not maybve i can help you?

(I represent EWM in the UK for your information )

Regards
6 Milli

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning 6 milli billi.
No in short.
They initially told me about two and a half weeks ago that they had a machine out from stock and the person whom will do the demo will get himself familiar with the machine and will contact me to arrange. About a week and and half later I contacted them as to when this would happen. after several emails and calls they will get back to me, I finally sent an email that Wednesday last week would be good, since they were apparently ready to go two day notice should be sufficient. I again sent an email regarting if this would happen and phoned the 'BOC's welding expert' whom was arranging this and left a message. I finally got a return call from the local manager of the Gas and Gear, who basically said that the person doing the demo is on his way to Canberra. To which I replied 'well then he can drop by on his way. That was rebutted as 'he has gone part our area already. He will not be back till about the 23/5/2016, may be then we can arrange something. I vented my disbelief that I must not be important, to which the local manager said 'I am only trying to keep the customer happy, not worried about the sale'. After that I had no further comment
Buisness must be booming here in AU and they must be selling many machines not to bother with me
What can you possibly reply to all that.

 

[6 milli billi]

Good morning Henry
I am sorry for the very poor response you have had is it possible to tell me which BOC branch you are dealing with? I know the person responsible for our business in AU and he will not be happy with this, we must be better represented in our export markets. If you let me know I will make some enquiries.

Best Regards
6 Milli

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Thankyou for that 6 milli billi
I think I have sent you a PM

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Just an update for anyone that is interested
New EWM Phoneix 355 arrived yesterday. Not game to post a picture as it may be going back, bits missing and being shuffled from one person to another.
Yes it is very frustrating and it appears to be my fault, must have misunderstood something

 

[6 milli billi]

Hi Henry

Please tell me exactly what is missing and i will see what i can do to help.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Thankyou for your effort 6 milli billi.
I did get a phone call from Richard today, don't know whether it was as a result of your effort, however he did promise to organise the missing bits and organise the person that was going to do the demo to come and visit me. I now hope this happens. I am not overly pleased that they are involving the local guy as he has twisted my responces and forwarded that info on. The responce from Richard was that the leed went cold, I informed he can you work out why? Richard did inform me that there seems to be an internal problem, well I hope that they work that out quickly.
Any way please let me thank you again and am hoping that this is the last time I bitch about this

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning to all.
Just an update. Received the missing bits (well most not any tips though) in a plastic bag delivered by the area manager and some other guy early last week. When I asked questions, I was told that they know nothing apart from getting these parts to me.
Late last week they organised a sort of demo for me with a alli boat builder who would explain the operation of the machine. This I concidered a waste of time but went along with it, as you never know what you will learn. What I did learn and became apparent is that I was concidered (by the BOC guys)a complete novice with no welding knowledge and getting a machine far beyond my capabilities. At least one of the BOC gents realised that I do know more than they assumed.
It will be a week since the 'demo' in which I was assured that they will keep me informed of progress and get some one to pay me a visit and give me the fine details of what I am after. Still waiting
Did put a tip into the mig gun and tried the machine over the weekend on some 6mm steel scrap in the rootarc mode, seemed to work quite well, I was suprised that I made horizontal V but weld with almost perfect penetration and reenforcment, go figure. This was one sample that I tried will try some more today and see how it goes

 

[Landslide]

I thought i would chime in with my boc experiance. I came here for help with wiring on an ewm.
I would recomend avoiding boc at all cost. My experiance is that they don't have any welding knowledge. I have a ewm tig and the local shop couldn't get the part numbers right for the abitig torch. Three goes no luck. So i went to the local fronius dealer with the abitig partnumber i found myself and had it over night. I have now found out they have had partnumber troubles for years and no one has fix it.
Same with help with settings and wiring external control. Phone and email support is useless.
Im i a bit surprised about your fronius support. My local store would be happy to demo. They do their own demos for display so they know the product and to show it off. But this is a small regional qld centre.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good afternoon Landslide
I must correct the slight missinformation. The fronius guys in Qld did drop the ball, however they did pick it up again and I have had very fruitfull conversations with them. The local Fronius guys (Sydney) did come down to demo and I must give credit when it's due the guy on my samples did a short weld, did some adjustments, did another weld, some more adjustments and all was good. He than gave me a try with double pulse and my first go was poor, (vertical outside corner) however on the second attempt I would have given myself a job. To be truthfull all the top manufactures machines will do a good job, no question, it is the ability of the support staff to answer questions so the person using the machinery can get a good result.
I have the Phoneix 355 at the moment from BOC's online sales as it was on special and was very attractive. The equivalent in Fronius TPS320ic was three times the cost. I decided to put up with some inconvenience due to the cost saving, however my patience is running low.
The EWM knowledge seems to be confined to only a few people, however they don't seem to want to answer the phone or reply if you leave a message. My local branch manager may know how to sell gas by welding equipment very poor. He also had a missconception as to my knowledge and abilities and basically told me that he has to look after account over $15000. Oops there's the truth I am just a small individual so not worth dealing with. He might need to brush up on his people skills.
I am in a quandry at the moment, do I return the EWM and politely tell them where to shove it or do I continue. I have had a couple of practice runs on some samples I have cut and don't know what my position would be if I returned the machine. I may contact the Department of Fair Trading here to see. If I go down that path I would get the Fronius TPS320ic no question. At least I can ring some one and get a answer basically straight away.
6 milli billi has helped me quite a lot, and it seemed that after I had contact with him, the next day I got contact from BOC here. I get the feeling he must be quite sick of me contacting him to get an answer here, that should not have to be the case. From the welding expert here in BOC who told me there are some internal issues that they need to sort out, from where I stand and seem also from you that is not happening

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good afternoon Landslide
Spoke to Dept of Fair trading and I have grounds If BOC don't come good. On another note the TIG torch you have I have contacts and do supply welding part if you need something then private message me and I can arrange it for you. I hope that I haven't caused some grief by saying that!

 

[6 milli billi]

Hi Henry
Sorry if you still haven't got everything sorted. I won't get sick of helping, but it may just take me a little time, as i am out of the office quite a bit, and really busy as we have an open day event coming up and iot is difficultto organise with staff holidays and sickness to deal with at the same time. As i advised (and i think you have seen from your first experiences welding with it) I would try and stick with it, as it really is an unbelievable price they have given it to you for. If you send me in advance the application you want to set it up for, maybe we can find a convenient time next week that you can be at the machine and i can be in front of same machine or at least the control panel and talk you through a few things? Hope this is helpful

6 Milli

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning 6 milli billi
That would be great. It is such a tragedy that I have to come to you for help. The application is vertical up butt, outside and inside fillets on steel at this stage. I have 3mm, 6mm and 12mm samples to do. I have at this stage tried the overhead in rootarc and was acceptable the fill pass and capping could be better, but we will see what needs to happen. Later will need to do S/S and alli in the same positions, but first things first.
Again thankyou I am embarised to be asking some many times.

 

[6 milli billi]

No Problem Henry, what wire diameter and gas mix do you have? I wills peak with our applications team at HQ, and then email some parameters to get you started. If you can put them into the corresponding JOB in the machine? If you need help with this, then myself or my applications engineer in the UK can help

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Good morning 6 milli billi
The gas I have is 2% oxygen, 5% Co2 and 93% Ar. The wire I am using is 1.2, but am arranging 1.0mm wire for the thinner materials. Hers in Au .9mm is very popular and readily available, however the machine dose not have a program for .9mm.
Could you email me the address and possible phone number of you applications engineer then I could contact him directly.
One of the main reasons for purchasing this machine was the ability of the machine to weld thinner materials using the thicker wire (1.2mm). My normal thinnest material is about 3mm, so is that attainable with 1.2mm filler wire. Now the down hand is no problem, but the vertical up outside corner and inside fillet for me are, also I find the overhead easier than the vertical ups.

 

[6 milli billi]

Hi Henry, good news, the machine does have JOB for 0.9mm, it is JOB 7 with the gas you are using. It is for some reason not in the JOB list, probably as it is not really available in Europe. I just remembered that the JOB's in the lst jump from 6 to 8, so thought I would check as we sell a number of these machines to BMW and they only use 0.9mm. Hope this helps you. My UK based application engineer is on holiday until Monday. I will send some parameters for you to start off with, and see where we go... 1.2mm should be fine down to 3mm material, but not sure in the vertical up. We have some nice results with 1.2mm and vertical up using superpuls on 6mm plate. Will come back to you when i can