Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[Erie Fred]

Done to death nowadays, million's of EV's now in service and just a few pictures of hot breakdowns two (?) involved in collisions and one arson or a photo fake ?

Two Sundays ago saw 18 ICE broken down's within a few hours of our journey between M4 Reading and Crosshands .
Funniest was a big campervan , stopped dead in the slow lane of a motorway merge, halfway into the left motorways rh merge road with two joining lanes on their left , Chaos ensued .. 12 miles of tail back on the M4 & god only knows how much tail back to Bristol .

And no-one had a fire extinguisher in their car ? 12 miles of cars & trucks ?

Maybe the EV's need a rule, where they have a central onboard extinguishing system installed & inspected yearly.

 

[rhubarb7]

That charge strategy is much better than you'd expect, keep in the 20-80% range and it reduces the chemical changes in the battery that reduce their capacity and increase the chance of thermal runaway.

I disagree, doing a really fast charge for 15 minutes will do more harm than good.

 

[DAPPH]

I'm not long back from my holidays to Yorkshire with wee diversions through Fife, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Newcastle. 30kWh Nissan Leaf, 5 up with luggage, 1520miles in 7 days. Never skimped on a/c, taking it steady and being wary to avoid the bottom 1/3rd of the pack but it was no great hardship taking the EV this time.

Highs - there are some really decent facilities going in designed by folk who know what they are doing although nowhere near enough. Wallyford park and ride was a good example with dozens of low power chargers and some well designed layout for rapids allowing trailers through. Catterick rapid chargers also excellent, how a filling station should be even selling LPG. Few other hubs on the A9 that are worth a mention, Pitlochry, Kingussie all good options.

Lows - Way too many rubbish EV charging facilities - Glasgow - 3 broken rapids in a row?! Tebay services - joke of a place, 2 rapids charging at 25kW with no queue facility and quite a few EVs unable to proceed to next services due to low batteries. Get a diesel genny and run it to power rapids if you can't get an electric connection. No provision for slow charging for those willing to sit in your overpriced cafes and spend money for longer. Broxden park and ride, 1 rapid and banks of unused Tesla chargers, something way wrong there. Straighton park and ride a joke as well, 1 rapid and one slow charger.

My own strategy was to keep the battery in the sweet spot charging, rapid charge of c.10kWh and unplug as soon as it started tailing down to less than 20kW so most of the time charging stops would be somewhere around 15 minutes max. Worked well and allowed plenty of stops for toilet breaks and stretching of legs. As I use CHAdeMO I managed to jump queues to get on a shared dual charger, Tebay was the only charger I think I actually had to queue for and that was only 10 minutes. Looking back I never took more than 16kWh from any rapid charger so even a degraded 24kWh Leaf would have managed the trip although they'd possibly have been a few minutes more at the chargers as the charger curve isn't quite as good as the slightly larger battery.

I paid a few quid extra to granny charge at our accommodation, they had a handy socket outside which helped day to day. I saw the best ever economy with over 5 miles per kWh for most of my travel in the Dales. The car really liked being able to regen on the steep braes and the low overall speeds on the lanes, way better economy there than similar roads here. Tourist pace perhaps?! No tailbacks though, I have mirrors and use them. Not a huge amount of charging infrastructure on my travels there - dead rapid in Kirby Stephen, next closest rapid showing on the map didn't exist.

I haven't added up the total charging costs yet as charging is a mess financially. I have the CPS card so easily keep track of most of my Scottish spend (apart from Perth, where I used BP Pulse ultra rapids) but South of the border it is every man for themselves and even though I have an Electroverse card it was pretty useless and it was a case of contactless payment or signing up for stupid apps like at Thirsk car park to allow slow charging. In most cases I had little control over the rates I would pay so paid the going rate of up to 90p/kWh in some cases. The journey cost will be more than the equivalent petrol model though, I'm pretty sure of that.

In terms of inappropriate vehicles to take on a family holiday the Leaf wasn't too bad at all, consider last year we were using a Discovery 3. Not too many complaints from the passengers although we didn't fit anything like the same baggage and the car noticed the weight when fully loaded. I think next year we will take the Series 2a before the powers that be dictate some legislation to stop us (went through three LEZs in the course of the trip). Forget your 90kWh battery monsters, have yourself a real adventure with a <20 kWh Leaf!

Don't most of the latest Branded Tesla chargers also accommodate other plugs for fast charging .. Certainly it's the other way round for most non Tesla chargers but not the early standalone type one chargers with only one small plug-in the same as a type one 13 amp domestic home plug in the mains charger ..
We did come across an non Tesla standard charger with a Tesla socket standing all forlorn and unloved at a MOTO services where 14 of the new latest up to date chargers are due to come on line in about 11 weeks time.

Comments please .

 

[DAPPH]

And no-one had a fire extinguisher in their car ? 12 miles of cars & trucks ?

Maybe the EV's need a rule, where they have a central onboard extinguishing system installed & inspected yearly.

I never said it was on fire Fred , it was just stopped dead in the middle of the intersection . More like a timing belt or SU Carb failure etc.as it was on a Sherpa chassis

 

[DAPPH]

And no-one had a fire extinguisher in their car ? 12 miles of cars & trucks ?

Maybe the EV's need a rule, where they have a central onboard extinguishing system installed & inspected yearly.

Over the last three years EV batteries have started to have reliable thermal cell cut outs that come into play if an individual cell shows sign of over heating . It may well be that such electrical fires of old will now rarely happen

 

[Erie Fred]

I never said it was on fire Fred , it was just stopped dead in the middle of the intersection . More like a timing belt or SU Carb failure etc.as it was on a Sherpa chassis

Oh, I thought it was an EV that was on fire, caused the 12 mile backup.
can't 20-30 people get together and push it off the side ?

 

[Erie Fred]

Over the last three years EV batteries have started to have reliable thermal cell cut outs that come into play if an individual cell shows sign of over heating . It may well be that such electrical fires of old will now rarely happen

EV batteries catch on fire for more than just charging/discharging.

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a second line of defense is needed, like an extinguishing system.

 

[DAPPH]

I disagree, doing a really fast charge for 15 minutes will do more harm than good.

Just how bad is your journey planning & excessive hours spent driving if you are going to have dozens of fast charging one after another ?
Seem to recall reading that even if every recharge was a heavy duty blast to full charge it would not knock the guaranteed battery life for the agreed mileage . Though a taxi / fleet car might if it was being run around the clock but that would need special warrantees just like any ICE used for such a purpose .

 

[DAPPH]

Oh, I thought it was an EV that was on fire, caused the 12 mile backup.
can't 20-30 people get together and push it off the side ?

Not on a UK camera controlled very busy motorway intersection with cars being driven by morons either side of you at 70 mph or more ( a lot more ), plus where would the drivers park up whilst they get out and dash the 100 yards or so to the stricken vehicle . Then of course is the horrific problem of 20 to 30 people running back dodging traffic to get back to their parked vehicles .

 

[DAPPH]

EV batteries catch on fire for more than just charging/discharging.

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a second line of defense is needed, like an extinguishing system.

The thermal cut out comes into play if there is a short circuit heating effect . some I believe also have a deceleration device to disconnect / isolate the battery should it be involved in a collision. As new problems arise the manufactures will always implement new things to overcome the problem . just like ICE makers used to .

 

[Nomad]

Oh, I thought it was an EV that was on fire, caused the 12 mile backup.
can't 20-30 people get together and push it off the side ?

That's not going to happen these days

5 years ago I was driving on a congested dual carrigeway. The outside lane was blocked as someone had run into the back of the car in front. Front car was driveable and had pulled forward onto the hard shoulder. The car with the crumpled front end was the problem. I had kit in the car as I was regularly towing stock cars & trailers, I stopped and offered to tow the stranded car onto the hard shoulder so it was somewhere safe and the road was clear - driver told me to leave it where it was until the police came and took over. I left them to it.

Last year I came to a roundabout, there were 2 cars in front of me at the giveway line. First car waited for a gap then moved off ok. Next car stayed where it was - a car length from the line. I gave them a minute then got out went to see if they were ok - if they were broken down I was planning to offer to push if the driver steered to the side of the road just so they weren't blocking the junction.
I opened their passenger door, driver was just looking at the clocks with a blank expression on his face, his (very large!) passenger was just sitting there waiting for something to happen. I told the passenger to get out and push and we soon had the car off to the side of the road and the junction was cleared. Sad that the 2 of them in the car were incapable of thought themselves.

My classic started running rough last year on a long motorway trip. It would have got home ok but a driver in lane 2 pulled out as I was coming up behind in lane 3 - he then braked sharply as traffic in front was slowing due to traffic jam ahead, my car stalled when I did an emergency stop. All 3 lanes were stationary and I couldn't get my car started by the time the traffic started to move. I got out and pushed it across 3 lanes of traffic onto the hard shoulder before cars started moving at speed. There were people in 20+ cars watching me - nobody got out to help. The problem turned out to be a failing coil, easily swapped with a spare at the side of the road.

Sad to say from my personal experience in recent years is that the only thing you can expect if there's a broken down car stranded in a dangerous position is that lots of folk will get their phones out and start to video it

 

[Erie Fred]

The thermal cut out comes into play if there is a short circuit heating effect . some I believe also have a deceleration device to disconnect / isolate the battery should it be involved in a collision. As new problems arise the manufactures will always implement new things to overcome the problem . just like ICE makers used to .

I am involved with this stuff.
You think impact is just from driving ?

You need a secondary fire suppression system.

Period.
You can't fix it all with software.

 

[Erie Fred]

That's not going to happen these days

5 years ago I was driving on a congested dual carrigeway. The outside lane was blocked as someone had run into the back of the car in front. Front car was driveable and had pulled forward onto the hard shoulder. The car with the crumpled front end was the problem. I had kit in the car as I was regularly towing stock cars & trailers, I stopped and offered to tow the stranded car onto the hard shoulder so it was somewhere safe and the road was clear - driver told me to leave it where it was until the police came and took over. I left them to it.

Last year I came to a roundabout, there were 2 cars in front of me at the giveway line. First car waited for a gap then moved off ok. Next car stayed where it was - a car length from the line. I gave them a minute then got out went to see if they were ok - if they were broken down I was planning to offer to push if the driver steered to the side of the road just so they weren't blocking the junction.
I opened their passenger door, driver was just looking at the clocks with a blank expression on his face, his (very large!) passenger was just sitting there waiting for something to happen. I told the passenger to get out and push and we soon had the car off to the side of the road and the junction was cleared. Sad that the 2 of them in the car were incapable of thought themselves.

My classic started running rough last year on a long motorway trip. It would have got home ok but a driver in lane 2 pulled out as I was coming up behind in lane 3 - he then braked sharply as traffic in front was slowing due to traffic jam ahead, my car stalled when I did an emergency stop. All 3 lanes were stationary and I couldn't get my car started by the time the traffic started to move. I got out and pushed it across 3 lanes of traffic onto the hard shoulder before cars started moving at speed. There were people in 20+ cars watching me - nobody got out to help. The problem turned out to be a failing coil, easily swapped with a spare at the side of the road.

Sad to say from my personal experience in recent years is that the only thing you can expect if there's a broken down car stranded in a dangerous position is that lots of folk will

Sadly my experience's have been similar.
And working as a wrecker/tow truck helper, trying to convince drivers to slow down
and move over was terrible even 30 years ago.

 

[GRW]

I only use the Tesla network and even then only very rarely. They can range from 250kw to about 80 yesterday - depends mainly on how many other folk plugged in and what “state” your batter is in I think.

What does “charge slowly” mean - genuine question - ie is it a certain % of the battery capacity or is it simply the slower the better ? As mine spends 99% of its life being charged at 10A at home i reckon it must be in pretty good shape !

Honestly I'm not up-to-speed with what's  really the right percentage for Li-ion. But if it has a charging similarity in the same way it has other similarities with Lead-acid - then it'd be 10-15% of the AH rating per hour max.

 

[premmington]

Should be better than most hybrids. The rotary engine has never really been accepted as the most reliable engine technology, but running at (mostly?) constant speed and not over-speeded, it may well be OK.

Their claim of being ‘always electric drive unlike…’ is carefully worded to exclude other similar preceding configurations - the BMW i3 REX was always electric, the engine only driving a generator which charged the battery. The BMW offering only had a single motor, of course (assume the Mazda has AWD offerings in the range because it mentions ‘motors’?)

Even the fully petrol driven “hybrids” gain from regenerative braking - about the only positive of those vehicles, apart from the possibility of some pollution-free urban motoring.

The Mazda, with a decent sized battery (35.5kWh), is much more akin to the BMW i3.

I would say a good choice as an entry route to a full BEV. Especially if used mainly from home charging.

Have you ever tried to start an Rx7 or Rx8 rotary engine...?

Rotary engines was always, gross polluters like two strokes - maybe things have improved?

------

I not anti Rotary - I have rebuilt a few Elford turbos in the early years...

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I not anti Rotary -

anti-rotary...would that be stationary I'm wondering

 

[GRW]

Done to death nowadays, million's of EV's now in service and just a few pictures of hot breakdowns two (?) involved in collisions and one arson or a photo fake ?

Two Sundays ago saw 18 ICE broken down's within a few hours of our journey between M4 Reading and Crosshands .
Funniest was a big campervan , stopped dead in the slow lane of a motorway merge, halfway into the left motorways rh merge road with two joining lanes on their left , Chaos ensued .. 12 miles of tail back on the M4 & god only knows how much tail back to Bristol .

Mind you if Toyota's data is correct & that only 1% of the world's cars are Leccy (& yes I appreciate the UK will have a bit more than 1%) - plus when you consider that a lot of ICE's will be a lot older & much higher mileage than the cast majority of EV's..... then (if the EV reliability was identical to ICE reliability) .... you should be able to count well over 100 failed ICE's for every failed EV.
(The actual number would require the data to do the maths, but I'm sure you get the point).

As for failed ICE campervans versus EV campervan breakdowns..... well that's an infinite number

 

[redlig]

Oh, I thought it was an EV that was on fire, caused the 12 mile backup.
can't 20-30 people get together and push it off the side ?

Get together and push it to one side!!! Don't be silly we can't do things like that . This is Great Britain , nobody has been introduced and heaven knows who one might meet.

 

[willie.macleod]

I disagree, doing a really fast charge for 15 minutes will do more harm than good.

It's a Leaf so rapid charge is 47kW max, nothing compared to the 350kW monster chargers available now. The battery tends to perform better once warm, it will stay at a higher charge rate once it warms up. Fine line between that and over heating with a non cooled pack but I never went into the red once. I trust the Nissan engineers programmed the BMS properly as they've got over a decade of data from their cars in the wild to reflect on.

 

[Erie Fred]

Get together and push it to one side!!! Don't be silly we can't do things like that . This is Great Britain , nobody has been introduced and heaven knows who one might meet.

Yes, I'm sorry for the lapse.
Maybe all the Paparazzi can get out of their vans, and push..."Oh look, is that Clarkson ?"