Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[brewdexta]

Just run some services to houses at a higher voltage where the infrastructure is at its limit and have a transformer/EV charger in each house. If it became say 1kv, then the same infrastructure could carry 4 times the power for the same current. I can foresee some interesting problems when a JCB goes through it though Probably also some other issues with insulation breakdown etc. I never said it was perfect

 

[My Old Landy]

Induction charging, you know it makes sense

 

[My Old Landy]

Just to add, I am neither for nor against EV's. They exist and are good for those that choose them. One would make sense for me and my lifestyle. I have seriously thought of converting my 90 and it may yet happen.

 

[Bobtail4x4]

we were going out to nottingham last night,
decided to take the 2 litre diesel estate, as the electric Mii was on charge and no charge point within a mile of where we were going to leave the car,
however as we set off the range on the diesel said 140 miles she uses it locally but never bothers adding fuel,
called at the services to "splash and dash" £1.74 per litre wow
the Mii would have made the trip on 3/4 of a charge,

 

[atomant48]

we were going out to nottingham last night,
decided to take the 2 litre diesel estate, as the electric Mii was on charge and no charge point within a mile of where we were going to leave the car,
however as we set off the range on the diesel said 140 miles she uses it locally but never bothers adding fuel,
called at the services to "splash and dash" £1.74 per litre wow
the Mii would have made the trip on 3/4 of a charge,

Ouch. I filled up the big volvo just outside Liverpool this week and got a pleasant surprise - can’t remember exactly but it was in the 1.40s.

 

[cheb]

That's a lot of roadworks....

And how efficient is it, I don't remember seeing that in any article I read so far.

 

[My Old Landy]

Just a quick google shows this:

Genesis trialling wireless charging in Korea

Wireless EV charging could solve dreaded range anxiety once and for all – here's how it works

www.carmagazine.co.uk

It all seems the way forward in places where there is only off road parking etc

 

[Morrisman]

we were going out to nottingham last night,
decided to take the 2 litre diesel estate, as the electric Mii was on charge and no charge point within a mile of where we were going to leave the car,
however as we set off the range on the diesel said 140 miles she uses it locally but never bothers adding fuel,
called at the services to "splash and dash" £1.74 per litre wow
the Mii would have made the trip on 3/4 of a charge,

Near my place, J14 M6, they started to build a commercial estate, that was to have a filling station, a shop and a pub, amongst things. It's literally 50 metres from the m6 slipways, and I was dreading to see what traffic would be like during rush hour, as people dropped off the motorway to fill up 30p++ cheaper than the motorway services.

However, construction stopped two years ago and it's not moved since.

They laid the stretch of new blacktop in the top left, fenced it all off, then nothing.

 

[willie.macleod]

Just bumped into someone who’s got a brand new VW van, all electric. It’s a week old.
It’s a nice looking thing and I had a sit in it. Seems fine enough. Is an ID Cargo or something? Wrong phone so no pics.
He reckons it’s everything he needs. It looks a bit like an old VW bus in shape and style.
He has a hotel and uses it for errands so it will be never far from base. Plenty of room in it. Nice looking thing.

Sounds like an ID.Buzz, they are not cheap as they start around £60k but owners seem to like them and they get some good reviews. Mind you if his other car is a Maserati then maybe it isn't that much to him! Can imagine it being quite good as a hotel shuttle and enough room to go grab supplies plus if it is charging at the hotel as well that'll simplify fuel costs.

 

[northwest]

Just bumped into someone who’s got a brand new VW van, all electric. It’s a week old.

It’s a nice looking thing and I had a sit in it. Seems fine enough. Is an ID Cargo or something? Wrong phone so no pics.

He reckons it’s everything he needs. It looks a bit like an old VW bus in shape and style.

Yes, as @willie.macleod has just said, the ID Buzz, saw one for the first time on the way home last night, was yellow and cream and looked really smart, made me look twice anyway.

https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/electric-and-hybrid/electric-cars/id-buzz.html

Looked actually nicer than in the pic.

 

[m_c]

My son works at mira testing ev components & batteries. So is working with cutting edge ev stuff. His view & that of most of his fellow engineers is that lithium batteries were fixated on by the motor manufacturers as they were the first really viable battery technology available. Corporate inertia means that the EV manufacturers have invested too much time & money in lithium to get out of it until they really have to. But it remains a difficult metal to mine & extract & has problems such as its fire risk.
Much is said of hydrogen, most production comes from cracking methane but that leaves large amounts of Co2 which you dont want! Other way is electrolysing water, ineffecient as you have to burn electricity to do it, lots of it on any scale. Then you have to contain the stuff & its propensity to escape & leak is well known in industry.
If you want long range ev's with high power to weight ratio they should be looking at fuel cell technology such as Aluminium air, 5 or 6 times the energy density of lithium, safe & easily recyclable. That shows real promise & if ever adopted or something like it the ev will have come of age.
Pity the British company that invented it sold up to the French!

The issue is, lithium is currently the most viable battery option. It's proven technology, reliable, and relatively safe (at least in Li-ion form).
All the other 'latest technological breakthrough'* batteries are still largely laboratory experiments, and not ready for commercial use.
Vehicle manufacturer's are not going to suddenly jump to a non-proven technology, but they will be following developments, and likely funding/donating to various research institutes.

*insert alternative clickbait/headline grabbing title as appropriate


I do think hydrogen is likely to be the next big game changer.
Hydrogen can be produced via electrolysis on site, and then stored on site, which removes the need for transport infrastructure.
As you mention, it is currently a pretty inefficient process, but it would make good use of intermittent renewable energy, as production can be maximised when there is a surplus of energy.
And the tech is already being trialled in the UK - https://www.riversimple.com/
I walked around their hydrogen generator/storage in Abergavenny a few years ago. It's essentially like a 40ft container sat in the middle of the car park -

I would have posted streetview, but that's still pre-installation

 

[Roger440]

My son works at mira testing ev components & batteries. So is working with cutting edge ev stuff. His view & that of most of his fellow engineers is that lithium batteries were fixated on by the motor manufacturers as they were the first really viable battery technology available. Corporate inertia means that the EV manufacturers have invested too much time & money in lithium to get out of it until they really have to. But it remains a difficult metal to mine & extract & has problems such as its fire risk.
Much is said of hydrogen, most production comes from cracking methane but that leaves large amounts of Co2 which you dont want! Other way is electrolysing water, ineffecient as you have to burn electricity to do it, lots of it on any scale. Then you have to contain the stuff & its propensity to escape & leak is well known in industry.
If you want long range ev's with high power to weight ratio they should be looking at fuel cell technology such as Aluminium air, 5 or 6 times the energy density of lithium, safe & easily recyclable. That shows real promise & if ever adopted or something like it the ev will have come of age.
Pity the British company that invented it sold up to the French!

The problem is further upstream

The government have, to all intents mandated a solution (lithium batteries). And in doing so, made it pretty much impossible to invest in anything else.

Governments record of "backing a horse" are woeful to put it mildly.

What they should have done is mandated an outcome and let the market come up with solutions.

Sadly too late now. We are "all in" on batteries and will, in due course, suffer the consequences of that ridiculous "backing of one horse".

 

[Roger440]

Check out: https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...oad-set-to-revolutionize-mobility-155137.html

where they ran a vehicle charging at 70kW while driving.

Very recently, an electric car was driven, for about a day, on a track lay-out with inductive charging. Covered, I think just shy of 1400 miles with no charging stops. If I can locate a link, I will pop it on the forum. Doubtless systems such as this are things for the future, not next week (which is about as far ahead as some look at the maximum).

The French demonstrated a potential inductive charging system, on a very short linear track, about three years ago.

If it were only static charging at bus stops, the city buses could just keep going for the full shift of the driver.

Sometimes it is necessary to think outside the box for potential answers to practical limitations.

How is this relevant to anything?

We both know the chances of infrastructure on this scale in this country is zero.

We cant manage to fill in pot holes in less than a year, never mind dig up and relay half the roads in the country.

Pure fantasy.

 

[DAPPH]

Apart from reflective number plates, I expect other factors could be changed, but as these kerb-side connectors are likely non-tethered charging points, does it really matter (apart from theft of/from the connecting leads?



Watch ‘James and Kate‘ videos on youtube and you might realise that, for most service items, your comment is largely unfounded. Heavy lifting jobs generally require lifting kit to gain access, so just like now. - I doubt that many mobile mechanics change engines/gearboxes on customers drives?



Isn’t that what the government would like? More on public transport? I expect, looking ahead, that autonomous dial-up vehicles will become common - so less personal ownership required in the future, along with less fossil fuels (even if they are available at what some people regard as a sensible price).



Clearly there are some, even lots, out there that are making comments without checking up on developments -which are either already implemented, or possible improvements under development.

Just think, here, of those rare elements such as Cobalt that many harp on about - which are no longer used in many new Lithium ion batteries. Just think, here, of the recent possible (even likely) move from Lithium technology to Sodium based cells. Tesla and the other battery manufacturers are not sitting around doing nothing - even if some claim/assume they are.

The first is sensible for a restricted resource - it leaves it available for mobile phone batteries and production of road fuel (yes, lots of it). The second would replace Lithium with a much cheaper and readily available element - as well as reducing the combustion risks (as small as they are with the newer current battery chemistries) to a lower level, probably by an order of magnitude.




Brake dust? Surely someone is joking on this one. Most EVs recover energy, while slowing - using the kinetic energy of the vehicle to recharge the battery (for re-use later during acceleration and cruising). Some EVs can be driven without using the mechanical brakes at all, for most of the time - it just needs a careful driver operating at sensible rates of retardation. Look up ‘one-pedal’ mode of driving if you need further education on that particular issue. There are, of course exceptions - high state of charge, batteries left in a cold (unconditioned state) and those that are in too much of a hurry! Emergency braking will always incur the use of the mechanical braking system, of course.

My Wife's 15 plate Outlander suffered both front disc cylinder failures at the same time . I've told her dozens of times, "Make sure you use the foot brake several times in any journey to prevent the cylinders seizing up & rust forming on the discs ., don't just rely on regen braking and a gentle foot then parking brake . It cost a small fortune for the new calipers as they had to come from Japan plus we had a hire car for the seven wek it took to get them . so pleased it was done under warrantee ( two months to go ) .

 

[Morrisman]

How is this relevant to anything?

We both know the chances of infrastructure on this scale in this country is zero.

We cant manage to fill in pot holes in less than a year, never mind dig up and relay half the roads in the country.

Pure fantasy.

Exactly. Shedloads of international 'virtue signaling', while our actual road system is steadily crumbling away.

Why do people think we can build and maintain a charging system for 20 million green Dyson cars, when we can barely keep our roads in usable order?

The roads are growing steadily worse, the whole road transport system is going down the toilet, yet.....

 

[Farside]

Can someone come by with 5 gallons of fuel ?

If you're stuck in a nose-to-tail jam for five hours (not unkown over there on the abysmal UK motorway network), you can simply phone a mate with a bike and get him to bring some fuel in a jerrycan. Or pay through the nose for a courier to bring it. Couriers deliver stranger things every day and nothing will raise an eyebrow.

 

[premmington]

The problem is further upstream

The government have, to all intents mandated a solution (lithium batteries). And in doing so, made it pretty much impossible to invest in anything else.

Governments record of "backing a horse" are woeful to put it mildly.

What they should have done is mandated an outcome and let the market come up with solutions.

Sadly too late now. We are "all in" on batteries and will, in due course, suffer the consequences of that ridiculous "backing of one horse".

That is a very valid point.

"setting the target not the method structure"

 

[daleyd]

The problem is further upstream

The government have, to all intents mandated a solution (lithium batteries). And in doing so, made it pretty much impossible to invest in anything else.

Governments record of "backing a horse" are woeful to put it mildly.

What they should have done is mandated an outcome and let the market come up with solutions.

Sadly too late now. We are "all in" on batteries and will, in due course, suffer the consequences of that ridiculous "backing of one horse".

How have “the government” (presumably you just mean our government and not every other countries government too?) done this?

What alternative do you think they should have backed?

Do you not think they are providing infrastructure to suit what the car industry are telling them they are going to be doing, and not the other way round?

Why is providing a charging system only favourable for lithium batteries? The same charging system can work with any other form of battery?

 

[sako243]

I think what he was referring to was the favouritism towards electric and pure battery vehicles. What they should be doing instead is saying that vehicles should be carbon neutral / zero harmful emissions (as an example).

 

[daleyd]

I think what he was referring to was the favouritism towards electric and pure battery vehicles. What they should be doing instead is saying that vehicles should be carbon neutral / zero harmful emissions (as an example).

Isn’t that exactly what they have said? I think that is in fact the actual wording from them.

It just happens that bev happen to be the one thing which is actually achievable with current tech, whereas others aren’t.