A riveting problem....

[wookie]

Sorry couldn't help myself with the thread title

Have you ever done some riveting and the fat bit that you try and pull through the rivet (mandrel ?) has fallen off rather than remaining trapped in the end of the rivet when the shank finally snaps ?

I can't see the other side of what I was riveting but I could hear bits falling off after the shank had snapped, so I'm guessing it is the fat bit (mandrel) and I was wondering if the rivet was too short for the depth of hole but it was hard to tell as I was dangling on a rope 10+ meters up at the time.

I don't really want to have to drill out a bunch of rivets and replace with longer ones but I really don't want something 10+ meters up falling off....

Thanks as always for any advise.

 

[awemawson]

Do a test using same rivets and same thickness materials on an open section where you can see what's happening

 

[colnerov]

Hi, Use closed end rivets to avoid losing the head of the mandrel once you've sorted the correct length.

Colin

 

[8ob]

Have a look at peel rivets, big scope.

 

[500e]

We use these on helicopter skins

 

[wookie]

Hi, Use closed end rivets to avoid losing the head of the mandrel once you've sorted the correct length.

From memory closed head rivets don't clamp as tight as "normal" rivets, I'm not bothered about loosing the head of the mandrel as such, just worried that the rivet hasn't pulled up correctly if the mandrel head falls off.

@awemawson I can't do a test because I'm riveting a bracket onto a 25m mast, there is nowhere I can see the otherside of a drilled hole.

@500e I should be able to work out the thickness of material I'm riveting but I need to know how to select the correct length of rivet, i.e before compression the rivet length needs to be "X" mm longer than the thickness of material being riveted.

 

[Seadog]

http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/brands/pop/rivets/selection-factors

 

[wookie]

@Seadog thanks for that, but where is the chart of rivet lengths verses material thickness being riveted ?

<EDIT> I found pdf's on the griptite rivet page but most of the types of rivet they do there is no datasheet that I can find

 

[Shox Dr]

What type of rivets are you using?

Sounds like you might want to look at structural rivets.

 

[wookie]

What type of rivets are you using?

Sounds like you might want to look at structural rivets.

Just bog standard open rivets. If only there was a chart that basically says sumat like add the diameter of the hole to the depth of the hole to give the rivet length required.

 

[Seadog]

How about this then? - http://collections.infocollections.org/ukedu/en/d/Jgtz072ce/5.html

 

[wookie]

How about this then? - http://collections.infocollections.org/ukedu/en/d/Jgtz072ce/5.html

Brilliant

Now granted I'm not riveting steel or making a boiler but a rule of thumb such as the rivet length has to be 1.5 x the rivet diameter longer than the material being clamped is just what I wanted to know, I guess I'll be replacing the rivets with longer ones when we are next on that job which will be as soon as we have made mounting plates for the thermal cameras.

 

[Seadog]

but a rule of thumb such as the rivet length has to be 1.5 x the rivet diameter longer

If memory serves, that's the same as a solid rivet.

 

[500e]

https://www.irvansmith.com/scart/diameter-aluminum-rivets-p-4093.html
A printable page
Are you using the correct material rivet for a mast ?
http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/brands/pop/product-configurator?terms=code=public_view&pagetype=pop-wiz
Here is @Seadog configure page

 

[octo0072000]

would you be better off using rivnuts and bolts ?
at least you could then check the bolts once in a while

 

[bigegg]

If you use gesipa polygrip rivets, they have a much wider grip range - I've fitted 10s of 1000s and never had a failure.
Used a proper £800 gesipa electric rivetter though.

 

[wookie]

would you be better off using rivnuts and bolts ?
at least you could then check the bolts once in a while

No, the brackets are supplied with rivets to fit to the mast, I suspect the problem here is that this mast has a lot thicker wall section than most which is not really surprising since it's 25m tall so I just need to work out what length of rivet is required.

@500e Yes I'm using the correct type of rivet for a mast it's just the length I need to get right, that link http://www.stanleyengineeredfasteni...rator?terms=code=public_view&pagetype=pop-wiz doesn't work for me, the page loads but the next button does nothing, I've tried it in Palemoon, Firefox and Iceweasel browsers but no joy.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

the page loads but the next button does nothing, I've tried it in Palemoon, Firefox and Iceweasel browsers but no joy.

Works for me in Chrome?

 

[eSCHEn]

link http://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/brands/pop/product-configurator?terms=code=public_view&pagetype=pop-wiz doesn't work for me, the page loads but the next button does nothing, I've tried it in Palemoon, Firefox and Iceweasel browsers but no joy.

Hit "Back" first, it sets the location and without that step it's lost.

 

[wookie]

Hit "Back" first, it sets the location and without that step it's lost.

Thanks for that tip, it gets me a bit further but it won't let you choose a total thickness of more than 9.5mm and even when I stay below that limit it barfs at the end with

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for SQL Server error '80040e07'

Conversion failed when converting the nvarchar value '6.35' to data type int.

/emhart2/wizards/popeec/Step4.asp, line 45