30 amp off a ringmain trick

[tigler]

Very good points. Keeping upto speed with prevailing working practice and regs is something only a working professional can do. And it is possible to be to pedantic about the letter of those !!

 

[Robotstar5]

4mm2 cable for a ring main is overkill anyway,only if the circuit was mega mega long

If installation is covered by BS7671 (the regs) you may need to use 4mm cable on a ring final circuit (ring main). They were updated in 2008 to take into account modern house insulation methods and some cable runs need derating hence the use of 4mm instead of 2.5mm.

it gets a lot more technical but I'll leave that to MK

 

[madkayaker]

Well I'm not sure where some of you have got your info from but you have been miss informed or quite out of date. The regs as they stand BS767:2011 allow 100m2 of floor area in domestic installations with a max cable length of 70m on a 32A MCB or rcbo. How ever the regs do recommend radial circuits with 4mm being used on 32A and 2.5mm on 20A (max values so the installer can go les on the fuse sizes)


HOWEVER the installer has to consider thermal insulation in both wall and ceiling when designing circuits and due to the high requirement for loft insulation in new builds and during refurbishment's cables sizes often have to be increased or fuse sizes decreased to prevent over heating of cables. Southern Ireland has different regulations and I'm not sure what they are but I would bet there very similar as Europe is slowly standardising.


Ring final circuits were introduced after 1946 after the war as a way of saving cable during the rebuild as upto then each socket more or less had its own feed from the fuse board and 5A, 10A and 15A was very common with the development of the fused plug the RFC was ibtroduced but the demand in the houses was very less than now and consultation was held when the 17th edition was being drafted about the continued use of the RFC due to safety issues from miss use and improper maintenance

 

[wheresmejumper]

yes the regs are similar and constantly changing/adapting.Republic of Ireland came into the game late with electricity supply with respect to the UK,so the regulations/practices were never in sync.today the differences are negligible compared to some other EU countries.alarmingly so.

 

[Gritineye]

If the poster wants to run his welder from someone else's house he should use the cooker point which is rated at 32amps

Good point Georgie, never thought of that one.

Obviously it would depend on a suitably rated adapter/extension lead to connect to my welders 32 amp plug and reach the work, and how would it be connected?

 

[steviec_lj]

To use a standard "cooker point", you'd need to isolate the supply and "tail in" to the outlet, while at the same time disconnecting the cooker.

*EDIT* And you'd need to leave that up to a qualified electrician, as any alterations in the kitchen are notifiable and require testing and inspecting to comply. *EDIT*

What would happen if you went somewhere that only had gas for the cooker and no 45amp switch? Or solid fuel?

The image on the first page is a widow-maker, and should be removed to stop anyone trying to copy it. You can make them safe, but this is neither the place nor time to discuss it. It requires knowledge and a bit of kit to do it right.

 

[madkayaker]

I carn't see how a twin plug to socket could be made safe or a example of where it could be used safely

 

[wheresmejumper]

are cookers on a circuit with earth leakage protection in the UK?

 

[the snooper]

The image on the first page is a widow-maker, and should be removed to stop anyone trying to copy it.

the image should stay, as anyone searching for info on this topic will also find the info posted on why it shouldnt be done.
if someone is going to do it they will regardless of a picture.

there are plenty of people with shoddy wiring and idead we cant protect them all

 

[Gritineye]

My first thought on reading the first reply was to remove the picture, in case anyone copied the idea, then I thought the discussion needed it so left it.

As the topic has now run it's course, the danger of someone else using that picture out of context is too great a risk in my opinion, so I have removed it.

I made the lead up after hearing of the idea, thinking in laymans terms about the load on the circuit, admit I didn't even consider the problem of exposed live pins if one was unplugged.

If I can be so stupid then anyone seeing that picture and not reading further (no English maybe) can do the same.

If the mods feel the need to replace it then the responsibility will lay with them, not me, but please don't.

I'm just glad I started the thread, all your input is valued and taken on board, thank you.

 

[madkayaker]

are cookers on a circuit with earth leakage protection in the UK?

Under 17th regs normally yes. On 16th often yes If there was a socket on the switch plate if not normally no as to reduce nucence trips they were often not. Older than that very doubtful

 

[no idea]

My first thought on reading the first reply was to remove the picture, in case anyone copied the idea, then I thought the discussion needed it so left it.

As the topic has now run it's course, the danger of someone else using that picture out of context is too great a risk in my opinion, so I have removed it.

I made the lead up after hearing of the idea, thinking in laymans terms about the load on the circuit, admit I didn't even consider the problem of exposed live pins if one was unplugged.

If I can be so stupid then anyone seeing that picture and not reading further (no English maybe) can do the same.

If the mods feel the need to replace it then the responsibility will lay with them, not me, but please don't.

I'm just glad I started the thread, all your input is valued and taken on board, thank you.

Can the picture be reinstated but with a big cross/warning on it that this is something that should not be done? At least it puts the rest of the thread into context it provides a clear example of something that must not be done.

 

[zardoz]

Horrible stuff lecky.

Indeed, it scares me to death frankly. I think the only person to ever truly be its master was the great man Nikolai Tesla

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

To use a standard "cooker point", you'd need to isolate the supply and "tail in" to the outlet, while at the same time disconnecting the cooker.

I know of no house where its all gas dependant? regards to cooking, the vast majority of house have the two options ie Gas/Electric cooking and the vast majority of Electric cookers plug into the socket these days for convenience.

 

[madkayaker]

Electric ovens can often be plugged in as there normally 1-2kw. Hobs are 5-12kw so hard wired (unless you fancy having a 32-64A bs4343 in the kitchen)

 

[brightspark]

I know of no house where its all gas dependant? regards to cooking, the vast majority of house have the two options ie Gas/Electric cooking and the vast majority of Electric cookers plug into the socket these days for convenience.

er i havent an electric cooker point just a gas point and a 13 amp plug for the ignition . and electric cookers dont plug in to a socket they are hard wired in to the cooker controll unit fed of either a 30 amp 0r a 40 amp mcb certain single split level ovens are 13 amp most double ovens or oven and grill are 20 amp unless theres a selector switch so both cant be run at once and then they are 13 amp and can go on a plug

 

[rtbcomp]

I know of no house where its all gas dependant?.........

A friend of mine in Sheffield had an all-gas house (private hotel in fact). All the lights were gas and operated by "switches" on the wall. Operating the "switch" opened a valve which fed gas pressure upto the lamp via a small pipe, this in turn opened another valve which fed the gas supply to the lamp, which then ignited via a pilot light.

In Ted Heath's winter of discontent commercial premises weren't allowed to use electricity to illuminate their signs, but his were gas. The police actually called round to tell him to "put that light out" and it was ages before they were convinced the lamps were gas.

 

[GeorgiePorgie]

er i havent an electric cooker point

Er I said the vast majority do have,small percentage don't....summat to do with some people having a phobia about using gas.

 

[brightspark]

Er I said the vast majority do have,small percentage don't....summat to do with some people having a phobia about using gas.

and u said cookers are plugged in ?? wrong .

 

[the snooper]

no all electric cooker plugs into the mains they have to be wired, the only part of a cooker that plugs in is the ignition system on a gas hob