3 Phase or Single or 3 phase supply for hobby workshop

[smpw]

Hi Guys
In the process of building my workshop and likely to need a Pillar Drill along with a Power Hack Saw and Grinder. I have seen several come up on ebay over the last few weeks and most of the three phase machines seem to go for at reasonable price, the single phase at a premium. I don't tend to mess around with Electrics but think I have single as well as three phase in my property, as in photo. The workshop (Double Garage) has just a domestic supply so I am guessing I would need to run armoured cable from the fuse board in the house to the workshop to establish a 3 phase supply.
Would be interested to know what others would suggest.
Buying a converter 1 to 3 phase for the workshop or establishing a permanent 3 phase supply in the workshop. My own thoughts are that I would have more opportunity to purchase old well made gear in 3 phase at
a better price rather than paying the premium single phase prices.

 

[the snooper]

don't forget that its going to cost you to get new meters fitted and also 3 lots of standing charges on each bill. do you need 3 phase ?

 

[BrokenBiker]

if you have a 3 phase supply already, I see no reason why it cannot be extended into the workshop to a new distribution board.

3 phase machinery is a lot easier and cheaper to come by IME and I prefer 3 phase gear.

the converter route is perfectly viable, but I would price up an electrician to do the 3 phase move first and compare it to the price of a converter.

also might be worth noting that you will probably need an electrician that is cleared to work in industrialy and commercial environments.

I know when I did my city and guilds I was only qualified for domestic single phase instalations, and had to sit another city and guilds to work on 3 phase systems, but that was a few years ago so it may have changed now

 

[Robotstar5]

I know when I did my city and guilds I was only qualified for domestic single phase instalations, and had to sit another city and guilds to work on 3 phase systems, but that was a few years ago so it may have changed now

I never realised you could get quals for different No. of phases, started working on 3 phase as an apprentice in the 70's so one of my bits of paper probably covers me?

 

[Psychosaffa]

that does look like a 3ph supply.
IMO, changing over to 3ph will cost you. you will need to have new meters fitted, and have your fuse board changed to a 3ph one so that the phases are balanced. you cant have a 3ph supply and have all your house electrics on a single phase.

not worth it unless you have someone that will change your fuse board for a good price.

 

[brightspark]

that does look like a 3ph supply.
IMO, changing over to 3ph will cost you. you will need to have new meters fitted, and have your fuse board changed to a 3ph one so that the phases are balanced. you cant have a 3ph supply and have all your house electrics on a single phase.

not worth it unless you have someone that will change your fuse board for a good price.

theres no need to change the house db just fit a triple pole and neutral switchfuse leave the mains tails for the electricity board to conect when u get the new meter fitted and run an armoured cable out to a 4way 3 phase db .material costs would be about £350 for the gear and just get a sparky to wire it up. about half a days work if u put the armoured cable in

 

[Psychosaffa]

theres no need to change the house db just fit a triple pole and neutral switchfuse leave the mains tails for the electricity board to conect when u get the new meter fitted and run an armoured cable out to a 4way 3 phase db .material costs would be about £350 for the gear and just get a sparky to wire it up. about half a days work if u put the armoured cable in

if you dont fit a 3ph house db, you will be using more power on that phase. this may case a big power factor that can affect 3ph motors.

but to be totally honest, your average house probably wont use enough power to affect the power factor at all.

so as brightspark said

 

[brightspark]

as stated above its good policy to balance the load if u can but not always practical

 

[wristpin]

don't forget that its going to cost you to get new meters fitted and also 3 lots of standing charges on each bill. do you need 3 phase ?

3 lots of standing charges? I have 3-phase and I don't!

 

[Woody.v8]

3 lots of standing charges? I have 3-phase and I don't!

Me either

 

[the snooper]

I can dig out a bill showing it

 

[awemawson]

You cannot be certain that that incoming cable has all three phases connected in the street. It is not uncommon for a three phase head to have been fitted but only one incoming phase connected. If it is a three phase cable and only one is connected it is unlikely that they would connect it anyway as when a new service is installed they usually want to bring the incomer up to modern specs.

I can confirm that you do not pay three standing charges for a three phase supply. I pay the same standing charge for my three phase supply to my barn as I do for my single phase supply to my house.

 

[madkayaker]

You cannot be certain that that incoming cable has all three phases connected in the street. It is not uncommon for a three phase head to have been fitted but only one incoming phase connected. If it is a three phase cable and only one is connected it is unlikely that they would connect it anyway as when a new service is installed they usually want to bring the incomer up to modern specs.

I can confirm that you do not pay three standing charges for a three phase supply. I pay the same standing charge for my three phase supply to my barn as I do for my single phase supply to my house.

I would be surprised if there wasn't three phase there gauging by the size of the incoming cable.

 

[500e]

Cant see a seal either

 

[brightspark]

years ago if u had 3 meters they did charge u more for meter rental but the newer 3 phase single meter they dont .as for checking if there is 3 phase there just pull out the cutout fuses and use a meter across each phase and u should get 415volt. just ignore the neutral as each phase would only show 240v reading

 

[BrokenBiker]

I never realised you could get quals for different No. of phases, started working on 3 phase as an apprentice in the 70's so one of my bits of paper probably covers me?

I may not be 100% correct with it, but when I did my first city and guilds it was a joint course for wiring regs, part p, inspection and testing and city and guilds 4141-01 electrical installation within a domestic dwelling.

at no point on the course did we do anything to do with 3 phase, and were told that this cert only allowed us to work within a domestic environment and single phase networks.

then after a few months of being asked to do work on farms with 3 phase I did city and guilds 2365 level 2 and 3 diploma in electrical installations, that allowed work in any environment on single or 3 phase.

I am currently registered as an niceic domestic installer and do most of my 3 phase work on local farms and the occasional job in the local shop or doctors surgery

i did the 2365 lev 3 as it was a bargain at the time and i had the demand for the work. whether i 'needed' to do it or not wasn't something i looked into very much, just knew that i had been told i needed something ontop of 4141 and this fit the bill

i then, for some reason decided to become an apprentice maintenance spark but that hasn't panned out too well as the company i was working for didn't have the right attitude towards the learning aspect. used me for 2 years a cheap labourer and then couldn't understand why i was p****d off.

didn't learn anything i didn't already know in college either

 

[madkayaker]

There is only one true electrician training and that covers three phase, motors etc etc.

The other training is domestic installers and is the very basics required to cover the basic knowledge needed to meet the requirements of a part p competent persons scheme

 

[BrokenBiker]

yeah, I did the domestic installers one just to get a job and then did the 3 phase and motors one later on.

then started the apprenticeship and soon realised it wasn't as in depth as the stuff I had already done. the only stuff I needed to complete the apprentice ship was 3 basic domestic installations (cant see why as it was for maintenance electrician) consisting of a few rings mains, a few radial circuits and then one with a motor.

am now self employed doing mainly domestic stuff in my spare time whilst also working as a cnc lathe operator in a factory.

work is picking up a bit now though so will hopefully have enough work to go fully self employed within the next 6 months

 

[Robotstar5]

work is picking up a bit now though so will hopefully have enough work to go fully self employed within the next 6 months

Suggest you have a look round some of the electricians forums, work is hard to come by in some areas. Also, make sure you've got your public liability insurance, one guy dropped an SDS bit and damaged a crystal worktop, going to cost around £6k to replace!

 

[BrokenBiker]

I have liability insurance already. been doing work for a while under my own business name.

I have had a lot of work on over the last few months, much more than at the beginning of the year, and it is getting to the point now where I fear I may have to turn jobs down to keep my factory job for a bit longer, as it is a constant wage.

I have a few contacts in local pubs and farms. a few repeat customers and a customer that recently built an extension onto his house, huge thing, had it all passed and signed off, I wired it out, then 3 weeks later he decided he didn't like it, had me back out to rip the wiring out and has now levelled it and started again. I am already booked in for re-wiring it and he also wants his garage powered too.

am spending a lot of my spare time working at the moment so hopefully it keeps up