2k Hardener

  1. MyHouseIsOnFire New Member

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Uk
    Hi guys does 2k hardner make paint more durable or dry quicker?

    If it does dry paint quicker can I put it in Synthetic paint that is obviously not 2k?


    Thanks
     
  2. anjum Member

    Messages:
    1,150
    Location:
    London UK
    2k hardener is for 2k paint and cures the paint by a chemical reaction when combined with it.

    Is is also the bit with the poisonous isocyanates in it.

    It will not harden any other sort of paint but may well cause you to become very sick.
     
    Morrisman, mtt.tr and a111r like this.
  3. MyHouseIsOnFire New Member

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Uk
    Ok so it doesn't cure single stage paints.

    Is the isocyanates only found in the Hardener?
     
  4. anjum Member

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    1,150
    Location:
    London UK
    It would be like adding araldite hardener to paper glue, no point. But more dangerous.

    Yes it's the hardener with thje nasty stuff in it.

    The paint has other stuff like solvents etc in it but still "safer".
     
    stuvy likes this.
  5. MyHouseIsOnFire New Member

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Uk
    I see, well you say hardener to paper glue yet people have seem to have done it on this forum.

    Anyway i got another question...

    I can get 2k paint touch dryish (still wet beneath) in 2 to 3 hours using a heat gun, infrared lamps, or even a space heater in the winter.

    Does anyone know how long Synthetic Car Paint takes to dry in the winter and in the summer naturally?
     
  6. MetalMonkey Member

    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    UK
    2k paint will not cure properly without hardener, it is an essential part of the two component (2 komponent = 2k) system.
    The hardener really only works with 2k Paint, different brands of hardener may work with different brands of 2k paint but it is not recommended to use anything other than the matched paint with the hardener.

    Look up the manufacturers data sheet for the synthetic paint you are intending on using - it will give you all the data on drying time. It varies by product and manufacturer, although it is usually quite a bit longer than 2k.

    When it comes to paint the golden rule is follow the product data sheet – it is unlikely you will obtain a better result than that recommendation by the manufacturer and the cost of the paint and the prep work to redo the job makes it just too expensive to experiment.
     
    minimutly likes this.
  7. MyHouseIsOnFire New Member

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Uk

    Yeah the expense in experimenting is the biggest issue for me although iv found out few things through this route.

    Any links to websites that sell Synthetic paint with the data sheets you mention? Every time i buy from my local or ebay there are no such sheets, the only information is it should be mixed at 2:1. In fact i know a guy that buys 2k paint which states 2:1 mix yet he mixes it at 4:1 with nothing to complain about results. Maybe he only does this with paints hes familiar with and has found out it can be mixed at another ratio the manufacture is unaware of.
     
  8. MetalMonkey Member

    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    UK
    You can mix the paint with a smaller ratio of hardener but it will take longer to go off, and you risk it never fully curing.
    It is the same principle as mixing up filler, if you don't put enough hardener in it to activate the mixture, or don't mix it thoroughly it just ends up a crumbly mess that never sets.

    If he is familiar with it and getting good results that's great, don’t forget 2k is aimed at a professional bodyshop where time is money and you need to have the paint set and out the door as quickly as possible.

    Any local paint suppler should absolutely be able to supply you with data sheets (MSDS and TDS) for the paint - for safety reasons if nothing else as it will detail the precautions you should take.
    Although they typically will not provide it unless you ask.

    Ebay might be a little more pot luck – again they all vary so you can’t really interchange the specifications but this might give you an example?

    https://www.jotun.com/Datasheets/Download?url=/TDS/TDS__31588__Jotun+Essence+Hi-Gloss__Euk__GB.pdf
     
  9. graffian

    graffian Seer unto the end of his beard

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    Try some with hardener in it.
    I nearly always add hardener to basecoat.
     
  10. Dcal

    Dcal Forum Supporter

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    Location:
    Antrim Northern Ireland
    It is possible to add less hardener but it usually results in a reduced gloss level.
    This is desirable at times, e.g. where a satin or slightly less shiny finish is required or when matching faded paint.
    There comes a point where too little will cause problems.

    I have no idea why anyone would want to deviate from what the paint manufactures recommend, with mixing and matching different types of paint and hardener unless they like stripping it off again or are after a really interesting look that no one supplies.
    It might work but it probably won't and will preform worse than if you stuck with what the manufacturers say.

    When you are starting out it's hard enough to get a decent paint job without throwing a lot more variables into the mix. (both metaphorical and actual)
     
    Al Strachan likes this.
  11. graffian

    graffian Seer unto the end of his beard

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    It does make the basecoat slightly glossy, but once cleared you wouldn't know. It makes the basecoat harder and it
    sticks better. You don't have to clear it. The overcoating window goes up. You can scotchbrite or flat it before clearing it.
    Add hardener to fluro basecoats and they last a lot longer. I aim for 10% hardener, I have it in my head 8% is the recomended
    figure, but don't ask why I thought that.
     
  12. vw1

    vw1 Member

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    661
    Location:
    solihull uk
    Never even new you could do this.
     
  13. anjum Member

    Messages:
    1,150
    Location:
    London UK
    You can add hardener if you add a bit of clear lacquer in at the same time. I have used it in the past for the engine bay/ boot.
    The clear and the hardener react to set it.
     
    Dcal likes this.
  14. graffian

    graffian Seer unto the end of his beard

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    The hardener in the basecoat on it's own should be ok, unless your trying to get more gloss.
    Here's a pair of levers. They were re-painted with activated black basecoat and were used for a
    few years. It should give you some idea of the gloss. The surface finish is down to the substrate.
    They looked pretty much stock.
    painted-levers.jpg

    If your using fluro basecoat adding hardener makes a lot of difference. The basecoat fades slower.

    I can't be the only one doing this?
     
  15. carter13 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Durham
    The reason yôu never knew this is because you never do it. Anyone that does is showing how little they know about automotive painting.
     
  16. graffian

    graffian Seer unto the end of his beard

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    What basecoat are you using?
     
  17. MyHouseIsOnFire New Member

    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Uk


    Indeed, so iv decided to look for alternative Black Gloss paint (topcoat/last colour you see after the job type of paint) no clear coat required and in my quest iv found something that does not need activator/hardener. Synthetic Enamel unlike Cellulose paint will go on top of 99% of original or old painted surfaces without any reaction.
     
    anjum likes this.
  18. graffian

    graffian Seer unto the end of his beard

    Messages:
    2,867
    Location:
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    I had a look at some basecoat product sheets, three of the four I looked at said to add hardener, they said something along
    the lines of: for maximum film performance add hardener.

    For a while we used a lot of synthetics for cheap resprays. Some blokes always added hardener to it, it was added to reduced
    the drying times. But it reduced flow and gloss.
     
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