1st welds with Migatronice 185x

[Ratty]

Ok folks, found a little time last night to try out the welder (and my ability to weld with a mig! first time since my 2 day course so be gentle) on some 1.5mm plate. Managed a few reasonable straight welds on the flat so tried some fillet welds (is that the right term?)
I can't work out how to put text under each pic so here is the explanation..
1. Three short runs (1, 2, 3,) which didn't join up too well but looked ok I thought till I turned the piece round and found none had really penetrated..(2)
3. Had another go with the dial cranked up, again the reverse side not so impressive (4) first had a huge blob of weld on the other side and second blew a hole. Think I was moving too slowly as 3rd and 4th were better and achieved some penetration tho' still patchy.
I'm a bit in the dark about what sort of gas flow I'm getting, the reg has no gauge (and the near invisible lines are in PSI and not LPM - anyone know how to convert?) and the one on the argomiser (also in psi) didn't appear to be working. (see pics in my thread 'Gauges') although I later discovered it was when I used the argomiser key to turn up the flow.
Talked to weldequip as I was about to buy a new set of gauges and reg to replace the ancient set-up on the bottle and he talked himself out of a sale! Thanks for your advice and time w'eq, much appreciated. I shall persevere with what I have until I understand how it works.
Anyway, any feedback much appreciated and if anyone knows anything about argomisers and what they should be set at for max benefit please let me know!

 

[Country Joe]

Hi there Ratty,
The PSI reading is just showing the pressure in the cylinder.
Litres Per Minute (LPM) is a flow rate, & would be shown on a different dial.

Also, all my welds look better from the "side they were done from!"
I dunno for sure, maybe they're best when you can't see the "join" from the other side.
But for the first time on the thing - it looks ok.(to me!)
Hope I'm not wrecking your excuse for a Portamig!
All the Best,
CJ

 

[Cappy]

Horizontal Fillets are always a bit tricky knowing quite where to aim the torch. The angle from the horizontal plate (assuming both of equal thickness) ideally wants to be slightly less than 45 degrees as the weld pool will tend to slump off the vertical plate, so a reduced angle tries to compensate for that.

Regarding penetration I wouldn't be too concerned from what I can see as the strength for a fillet is worked out on the length of each leg of the fillet itself, so provided that each leg is equal and at least as long as the parent material then you're ok. A good way to test would be to a) cut through and have a good look to make sure you have got right into the corner and b) put one side in a vice and thump the other with a hammer to see if you can break the weld (try it both ways i.e. towards and away from the weld)

For a first go though - Brilliant

 

[weldequip]

Talked to weldequip as I was about to buy a new set of gauges and reg to replace the ancient set-up on the bottle and he talked himself out of a sale!

If it ain't broke don't fix it, you won't get the hard sell from me Ratty!
Welds look really good for a first attempt & the regulator is obviously working as there's no signs of porosity. You would find it easier learning on thicker stuff, flat bar or something, and then progress on to thinner stuff when you have got the hang of it.
weldequip

 

[malcolm]

Further to what Cappy said about fillet welding. Mistake I used to make was trying to penetrate all the way through like you would do butting two sheets together. Turns out that's bad form.

http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_tips/MIG_tips/ has some guidelines for fillet welding.

Looking good so far!

 

[weldequip]

There's some really comprehensive technical stuff on Miller's site & I certainly wouldn't doubt what they say, but I can't understand their recommendation of 75/25 argonmix for thin sheet. It's generally accepted (and recommended) in the UK to use 95/5 mix for thin sheet & 75/25 mix on thicker stuff. I also don't understand this CO2 is better for penetration thing either. In practice, if you were to do two runs side by side, one with mix & one with CO2, you would find that the CO2 run would be 'standing proud' & you would have to up the amps to get the same flat weld/penetration as on the argonmix run.
weldequip

 

[Drains]

Ratty, those welds are terrible. You should be ashamed of yourself posting pictures of them on this forum. Bah!

 

[Drains]

Also. Don't be too concerned about penetration on a fillet weld. It's fusion that matters.

You should make sure you get good penetration on a butt weld, as you're trying to replicate the condition of the parent metal, eg flat plate, but that's where appropriate prep and root gaps come in, as well as welder power.

You've got a good machine there, it's made your welding look fantastic (obviously if they were bad, it would be the machines fault also)

Si

 

[Ratty]

Thanks CJ & Cappy for kind words and encouragement

Hope I'm not wrecking your excuse for a Portamig!

No worries! I've decided I'm going to make learning the migatronic - and how to mig weld - my route to working out what it is I actually need - more power or less..would tig be better..shall I go for 3 ph..where will I be using it most (i.e. if I need to install 3 ph sockets the best place top put them) etc. Then if I want to sell it in a few months and upgrade I will have some knowledge of it and can sell with a clear conscience.
Cappy, I see what you're saying about angling the torch, but actually I cheated on this and angled the steel! I realise being able to position the workpiece isn't always possible so I will practice more with a proper vertical. Anyway, I did what you advised and cut thru the weld after giving it some welly both ways in the vice - weld held, plate bent (Pic 1) then I powerfiled the off cut piece to see if I could see a line at the join and was chuffed to bits that I couldn't (pic 2).
Well sorry..not able to load pics again, Malcolm I see you've dropped in while I was trying to sort this, I've restarted (which worked last time) but am still getting this error message
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 16777216 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 700 bytes) in /var/www/html/forum/includes/class_image.php on line 141
The pics are only 94kb., Any ideas?

 

[malcolm]

Well sorry..not able to load pics again, Malcolm I see you've dropped in while I was trying to sort this, I've restarted (which worked last time) but am still getting this error message

Load them one or two at a time will probably get around it. Fairly sure it's down to size in pixels and number of images (and the wonderful way the software works).

 

[Ratty]

That last post of mine must have taken an hour to get together! Hi W'eq, Malc n Si, good of you to drop in and thanks for helpful comments (which I managed to read after I'd finished crying over Si's first post...meanie ). The thing about penetration not important on fillets has cheered me up, makes sense too. I don't think I did too bad then, see what happens when I try a vertical weld Forget overhead..ever..can't see I'll ever need to, not for sculpture anyhow.
W'eq - salesmen like you make me want to spend my money with you - I'll think of something that I won't let you sweet talk me out of

I'll check out the miller site again, I was impressed last time I looked but didn't have a welder then so now things will probably make more sense

 

[Ratty]

Load them one or two at a time will probably get around it. Fairly sure it's down to size in pixels and number of images (and the wonderful way the software works).

I am loading one at a time! I think it's my apple sulking. I'll try again later..off to eat

 

[lexi]

Theres nothing wrong with that welder.........man AND machine!


Alex

 

[Ratty]

Anyway, I did what you advised and cut thru the weld after giving it some welly both ways in the vice - weld held, plate bent (Pic 1) then I powerfiled the off cut piece to see if I could see a line at the join and was chuffed to bits that I couldn't (pic 2).

Just tried again - 1st pic wouldn't load (Malc is looking into it) but this is the 2nd.
...and thanks Lexi maybe it's beginners luck, (my first attempt at gas welding was heaps better than my second ) I'll see how I get on tomorrow with a butt weld and some different thickness' of steel.

 

[malcolm]

Here's the first. Thanks for sending it over - tried reducing the file side to no effect - turns out the maximum height the forum can work with is 800 pixels. Otherwise it spouts out random errors.

PS - That's not going to fall off! Taken by the artistic photo and got distracted from the reason for the photo.

 

[Cappy]

Cappy, I see what you're saying about angling the torch, but actually I cheated on this and angled the steel! I realise being able to position the workpiece isn't always possible so I will practice more with a proper vertical. Anyway, I did what you advised and cut thru the weld after giving it some welly both ways in the vice - weld held, plate bent (Pic 1) then I powerfiled the off cut piece to see if I could see a line at the join and was chuffed to bits that I couldn't (pic 2).

Just seen the pic's all looks pretty good, and angling the work isn't actually cheating, no point in making life difficult for yourself if it doesn't need to be it's tricky enough as it is

Not that I've done very much MIG welding (most of my experience has been with MMA) but I understand that positional work can be tricky, though obviously not impossible. I have friend who is a coded welder and he has recently been on a 'point and squirt' contract as he calls it where they would use plain wire and gas for all downhand (flat) welding, but flux cored wire for all positional work. With MMA you can use the slag (if it's a quick freezing one) to hold the weld pool in place when welding vertically or overhead.

Keep up the good work

 

[Drains]

Blimey Ratty, you are such a show off!

Re positional. With a machine like that and your natural talent you will be able to do overhead and other positional welding, nae tother a baw. Play with the amps and speed feeds and your laughing.

Here - tomorrow, try getting some thick bits of metal and seeing if your machine will do spray transfer. You might be pushing it with 185A, but just put it on max power and see what happens. It's like bacon on super smooth sizzle. But downhand only mind.

Still no pics of the machine though?
Full frontal and drive rollers would be good... go on sweetheart, take off yer side panel...

 

[Ratty]

Here - tomorrow, try getting some thick bits of metal and seeing if your machine will do spray transfer. You might be pushing it with 185A, but just put it on max power and see what happens. It's like bacon on super smooth sizzle. But downhand only mind.

Still no pics of the machine though?
Full frontal and drive rollers would be good... go on sweetheart, take off yer side panel...

What's 'spray transfer' when it's at home and why downhand only (and 'downhand' means exactly???). Give me a break! I'm only just beginning to learn smterminology - fofl and the like - might take me a while to learn welding terms too
I've taken just the pics you request Si but rubbish pics with poor light so will do some in daylight tomorrow. It's not a pretty sight but pretty is as pretty does and I'm not complaining about performance

 

[Ratty]

oh and the side panel is permanently off so I can do wot me teacher showed me and wind the wire back so as not to waste any! Shoulda bin born a Scot lol

 

[Cappy]

Downhand = Flat on the bench - horizontal, as I understand it