1.4 polo tdi problems. (Part of my mashed brain)

[ukracer]

Sorry to ask another question so soon but this is part of my mashed brain.

1.4 polo TDI has had injector problems so over a period of 6 months we have changed all 3.
Recently ìt started cutting out after 3 to 5 mins running. So read up on the internet and it all pointed to relay 109.
Changed that today it cut out after 4 mins from cold.
My son then unplugged and plugged back in the cam sensor and it showed up on delphi.
But its now for over 30 mins without cutting out.........its still not right and we think one of the injectors is still fubared.

Does anyone know what they are looking at in relation to the figures in delphi maybe @doubleboost or @normspanners for example.???

Anyone else feel free to chirp up as i need to get in the workshop over the weekend.

I will try and add a video of the 3 injectors in delphi....
Here is a screen shot.

Update. Its also very difficult to start ........and has a lumpy idle.

 

[gavcarter]

Not familiar with your software so it might help to tell us what those values are?
Requested, actual, adjusted etc

 

[gavcarter]

Guessing it does. Which is why I asked what we are looking at lol

 

[ukracer]

Not familiar with your software so it might help to tell us what those values are?
Requested, actual, adjusted etc

Not sure.... i borrowed the laptop from a mate with lots of money but less of a clue on using it than me. Lol

 

[gavcarter]

Not really. You need to tell us what the values are?
What it says at left side of screen.
Is it injector 1 2
requested
Adjusted
Actual
Fuel trim

 

[ukracer]

Not really. You need to tell us what the values are?
What it says at left side of screen.
Is it injector 1 2
requested
Adjusted
Actual
Fuel trim

Its the one wirh 13 in the data list.
Injection volume (even idling regulation)

Its real time data....so i presume actual.

 

[gavcarter]

What year is it? Engine code would be even better

 

[rikrobson]

Is it definately an injector fault?
The ecu is measuring stuff and based on the stuff its given its trying to make the car run within the parameters that are set out for the stuff.
Itmay be working out that the problem is one thing and the ecu thinks its another.

 

[gavcarter]

Wouldn't say definatley an injector but it certainly looks like it.

Incorrectly coded injectors can cause all this type of chew. And crack pistons if you ignore it and drive about with it clanging and banging.....

 

[ukracer]

Is it definately an injector fault?
The ecu is measuring stuff and based on the stuff its given its trying to make the car run within the parameters that are set out for the stuff.
Itmay be working out that the problem is one thing and the ecu thinks its another.

Yeah this is the problem with diagnostics.
I was convinced...after looking in VW forums it was .....a 109 relay problem. But fitted a new one today and problem still exists.

 

[ukracer]

What year is it? Engine code would be even better

51 plate and i can get engine code tommorow.

 

[Sausage]

The injector loom is in the head and sits in hot oil so gets heat stressed and breaks down. Common problem with enough mileage and time. Usually presents as misfire though.

Also do a compression test. Seen people waste loads of money changing injectors etc only to find it lost compression on a cylinder, so eliminate that early on ideally before chucking money at it.

edit: ok didnt read your last reply,

Injectors need to be installed quite accurately with regard to alignment to the camshaft on these.

VCDS is the best software to diagnose these with, a £5 kkl lead off ebay and vcds lite cracked or registered to full version running on a spare laptop will give dealer level diagnostics. Seen it before where other tools dont pick up fault codes that vcds does.

Cam and crank sensors playing up when hot would be picked up by vcds.

Another option is temp sensor and ecu running wrong map because it thinks it is -20 when it isnt, again vcds would allow you to find this with live data.

Another thing to look at will be worn camshaft and/or camshaft bearings if the injectors are all over the place.

Not sure about the polo but Lupo has in tank pump with a filter and that pump sloshes fuel forward on ignition on if the fuel pressure is low enough, so from cold you would hear it slosh the fuel when turning the key.

 

[normspanners]

Is this a pd engine or common rail ? if CR Have you tested the injectors for back leakage ? if it is hard to start that can be a leaking injector, that is causing low fuel rail pressure at start up, if it doesnt achieve the pressure required it wont even attempt to start or may start and will cut out, sometimes if they are given a sniff, it helps them fire, that increases speed helps the pressure get up and they run.
To test you need to disconnect the returns and put them EACH into same sized containers and check for different amounts of back flow, the one that is leaking pressure will pass more back to tank.
Well to be honest the coding doesnt make a massive difference and wont stop the car from running, and many will adjust themselves to the right settings after a while anyway, using knock sensor etc if the engine doesnt knock,
it may not be far out.

Its not logging any faults at all to be honest. I think its mentions the MAF from time to time but its the same with it unplugged

that sounds like a leaky injector to me.
does it crank and crank and not try, but if you bump it it starts immediately?

 

[Sausage]

These are PD injectors:

 

[normspanners]

If Pd engine leaking copper seals or o rings on injectors that seal in the head can cause all kinds of weird faults that dont give DTC's causing some the compresssion gases into the fuel lines etc I had one that had been skimmed and had microscopic swarf stuck in washers and seals the car was a pig to start and ran like bag of poo. unbelievable amount of smoke !
would fill the workshop in seconds. The car had been repaired by his Dad who was quite good at spannering, but that was his limit.
Need to know what engine it is before gobbing.

 

[ukracer]

If Pd engine leaking copper seals or o rings on injectors that seal in the head can cause all kinds of weird faults that dont give DTC's causing some the compresssion gases into the fuel lines etc I had one that had been skimmed and had microscopic swarf stuck in washers and seals the car was a pig to start and ran like bag of poo. unbelievable amount of smoke !
would fill the workshop in seconds. The car had been repaired by his Dad who was quite good at spannering, but that was his limit.
Need to know what engine it is before gobbing.

Gobbing?

 

[ukracer]

These are PD injectors:

Thats the jobies....reading about seals written by normspanners it says you should fit new seals but i thought that was VW after money for nowt.

 

[Sausage]

they have tiny little holes for fuel feed inside the head, If you wire brush them to clean up the injector body they can get ruined that way so dont try it.

I'd only replace the seals if they looked tired or broken as I am a tight wad.

 

[Ashley Burton]

How did you diagnose the original injectors to be faulty?

What condition are the replacement injectors? eBay secondhand, Non tested before fitted ones?

 

[frank horton]

had an experience with a Golf same year.....
originally it had an injector with an elec fault, changed it with a new/rebuilt one and it never ran right....... so called in my ol mate a car electronics trouble shooter.......
basically he said that the old faults with the vehicle was logged in the ecu and was upsetting it......... he wiped out the old faults checked the system and all was well.......
the car made it back to Ireland and still running good........

a friend with thats an electronic trouble shooter is a friend well worth looking after..........always on my Christmas list........hahaha.......

I won't have a vehicle newer than 1999.........mines a VW T4.........
good luck Frank