½ zip or ¼ zip FR Thermals or Fleeces?

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Anyone got any recommendations for not excessively expensive options for the above?

I am probably going to be on site in Scandinavia a few times in the coming months, and will need some layering, but naturally running hot I like to have a zip at the neckline for ventilation.

Blaklader seem to do them but for £134 a pop it's a bit expensive for something worn as an undergarment (unless I want to be very smelly).

 

[TEO]

Ooh, pet topic of mine.
Zips all the way from base depends on the level of activity,
2yrs ago when we were -5 & lower for a cpl of weeks I had :
Heateach extra warm long sleeved T from Uniqlo - really good value for money. Long in the body so they stay tucked in, excellent all round.
Over that Tog 24 ¼ zip wool base layer - too short in the body but warm& Tog 24 often have a sale, otherwise find something else. That follows by -
A thin ½ zip fleece, a thin fleece gilet, a full zip fleece or a wool sweater & lastly a jacket - heavy cotton or a fire proof/retardant material instead of overalls as with all that on overalls are a pain. I
Lower half is Lidl fleecy leggings, womens so no fly but way better value than anything else & then Lidl insulated work trs.

A fleece neck gaiter is as important if not more so than a hat for me; stops me shrinking into my shoulders.

I've never succeeded in finding safety boots that aren't cold so gave up & if it gets cold I've a pair of Sorels

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I am very specifically looking for ½ or ¼ zip inherently flame retardant base layers or thin fleeces.

My clients in the Nordics are the kind of companies who will ask to look at the labels on contractor's self-supplied PPE, and won't let you in if you don't meet their standards...

Heateach extra warm long sleeved T from Uniqlo - really good value for money. Long in the body so they stay tucked in, excellent all round.
Over that Tog 24 ¼ zip wool base layer - too short in the body but warm& Tog 24 often have a sale, otherwise find something else. That follows by -
A thin ½ zip fleece, a thin fleece gilet, a full zip fleece or a wool sweater & lastly a jacket - heavy cotton or a fire proof/retardant material instead of overalls as with all that on overalls are a pain. I
Lower half is Lidl fleecy leggings, womens so no fly but way better value than anything else & then Lidl insulated work trs.

That's way too many layers for me to even contemplate!

For +5 down to about -5 I'm good with padded coveralls (thinsulate) over rugby shorts and a t-shirt.

Below -5 I need to wear thermals if standing still, but at single digit minus temperatures I would still overheat moving about.

Around that time I need to think about covering my face if it's windy, often with a Shemagh rather than a balaclava.

If I don't have to wear specific safety gloves, this is where the boiled wool mitts come out too.

Once it hits about -15 I need a parka (more thinsulate) too, which will see me down to -25, maybe -30 if it's not too windy and I'm not too sedentary.


My default outdoor clothing in the cold for non-work reasons is a buffalo smock work next to skin... Really not a fan of layering systems.

I've never succeeded in finding safety boots that aren't cold so gave up & if it gets cold I've a pair of Sorels

Sievi (Finnish), Ejendals (Swedish) and Helly-Hansen (Norwegian) and Dunlop all offer decent insulated options for extreme cold.

Jallatte do good stuff for moderate cold.

Composite toe rather than steel helps a lot.

But the critical bit is sizing/fit, a boot for extreme cold needs to fit (with a thick sock) without being tight at all around the fore-foot, so the foot should be restrained by the heel cup and lacing of the boot shaft...

That's often different to the fit people tend to buy footwear with for most other purposes.

 

[4String.]

Anyone got any recommendations for not excessively expensive options for the above?

Bear in mind that you get what you pay for, or to put it another way, good gear isn't cheap, cheap gear isn't good...

Scuba diving is one of my things and about 10 years ago I started to suffer with cold temperatures in winter. After a lot of research I was put onto a company called "Nordic Life" who are based somewhere down south and long story short they sell outdoor clothing that they import from Norway.

After much umming and aahing I bought a "Brynje Arctic XC" one piece undersuit from them, and they gave me a great discount because by pure coincidence I'd delivered a load of new doors and windows to their house a few years earlier and I got on like a house on fire with them!

The suit is apparently issued to Norwegian Special Forces and is allegedly the warmest on the market and my findings confirm that. I've dived in winter for 90 minutes in Scottish sea-lochs in water temperatures as low as 4° C and have got out of the water as warm as when I went in. The suit looks nothing special, in fact it looks for all the world like a posh "string vest" onesie, but it really is the mutt's nuts for being warm.

Might not be what you're after and might be out of your price range but they're well worth looking at if you value your comfort. Apologies for having no idea how to do a link but if you type "Nordic Life" into Google you should find them.

 

[Ubique]

We were issued some Brynje gear some years ago before spending time on one of the Svalbard islands, you description is reasonably accurate, I'd say it was made of 'hairy string' closer to baling twine... The concept is that it traps a layer of air between layers of clothes and prevents, or reduces contact transmission - and it works very well, even though we were pushing hard, there was little sweat noticeable on the skin as it was wicked away through the layers, I also didn't overheat - some did though. (possibly why my preferred OA was Africa!)
I have a Merino loose weave top that does the same thing but for more temperate climes, part of my layering strategy.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

say it was made of 'hairy string' closer to baling twine... The concept is that it traps a layer of air between layers of clothes and prevents, or reduces contact transmission - and it works very well, even though we were pushing hard, there was little sweat noticeable on the skin as it was wicked away through the layers, I also didn't overheat - some did though. (possibly why my preferred OA was Africa!)

This sounds very similar to the reason I like the buffalo DP stuff (and actually sounds like a rare product that would be a compatible be a addition to it, should I every need to go somewhere that cold!)

However, is it flame retardant?

Edit: no it isn't, but they do make merino wool FR ½ zips, which look excellent but are £170...

There's a pattern emerging here, and I don't think my wallet likes it.

 

[Ubique]

Not a clue, It could be post-treated I suppose - but given that it's a base layer, I'd ask are your skids flame retardant? because if they don't have to be, neither does a base layer (it's the same thing). You'd also be putting FR layers over your 'base layer' and if flames got through your outer layer and subsequent FR layers, then you've got a bigger problem than a smouldering base layer, although I'd argue that wool is inherently FR compared to man-made fibres.. Even the RN do not require a FR base layer, even after 'lessons learned' in the early 80's, flash hoods and FR / non-meltable clothing are rigidly enforced, I'm told.

 

[Agrismith]

If you want to try and save pennies try vinted. Plenty of very high end gear on there that's sign written obviously being sold once someone moves on and doesn't want the branding.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Not a clue, It could be post-treated I suppose - but given that it's a base layer, I'd ask are your skids flame retardant? because if they don't have to be, neither does a base layer (it's the same thing).

I have definitely worked places that issued FR underwear in the past, but it is uncommon.

I would consider an FR top whether base layer or otherwise to be higher risk than my underwear because of where it is on my body, and the tendancy to use the neck/collar of coveralls for ventilation.

I'm aware of two accidents where someone got nasty burns due to meltable t-shirts/jumpers as next to skin layers under coveralls which would have been avoided had they had not been wearing them... As evidenced by colleagues a few feet away who escaped the same incident with little more than singed eyebrows and uncomfortable redness on their skin, rather than significant second degree burns!

You'd also be putting FR layers over your 'base layer' and if flames got through your outer layer and subsequent FR layers, then you've got a bigger problem than a smouldering base layer, although I'd argue that wool is inherently FR compared to man-made fibres..

When I'm doing stuff for myself, the risk is generally from welding or heating activities and this holds pretty true.

For work, the FR gear is there as a last line of protection against the kind of accidents that can easily result in very big problems indeed.

I had the misfortune to be significantly on fire once early in my career due to a client's severe misjudgement, and escaped pretty much unharmed, but the entire sleeve of my coveralls had near enough disintegrated by the time I realised stop drop and roll wasn't cutting it, and sprinted for the emergency shower to put myself out.

Even the RN do not require a FR base layer, even after 'lessons learned' in the early 80's, flash hoods and FR / non-meltable clothing are rigidly enforced, I'm told.

The RN FR stuff is very good, I have a bunch of surplus work shirts that are ex navy (with the epaulettes cut off to look a little bit less like a Walt) and they're one of the few garments that fit my build really well...

 

[Ubique]

I'm aware of two accidents where someone got nasty burns due to meltable t-shirts/jumpers as next to skin layers under coveralls which would have been avoided had they had not been wearing them... As evidenced by colleagues a few feet away who escaped the same incident with little more than singed eyebrows and uncomfortable redness on their skin, rather than significant second degree burns!

I used to run 'bushcraft' training with a couple of ex-colleagues, the course notes were specific about the risk of open fires and clothing from man-made materials, we always advised wool-based outer wear and layers (synthetic base layers were never considered a problem). Every course there was 'always one' who knew better and would turn up with the latest and most expensive gear - we always used to wear wool, wool/cotton mix, moleskin or Ventile shirts, smocks, trousers or jackets as they would resist sparks and (to some extent) flames, anyway, one spectacular event stays in my memory, this weekend warrior decided to hang his £200 fleece jacket on a handy tree whilst doing the 'fire by friction' exercise, managed to get his tinder ball nicely alight and as shown, gently lifted it to blow air into it before placing it in his fire pit and adding kindling. All went well until he was seen storming around accusing all & sundry of stealing his fleece.... eventually we found it, well, bits of the zip anyway, right on the ground against the tree he'd hung it off - we reckoned he'd blown a tiny ember towards it that had turned his fleece into a smoking jacket, briefly, in an unseen exercise in self-combustion (certainly, there was enough fire & smoke around for it not to distract anyone from tending their intentional fires). It did make a nice change though, usually it was just screams around the camp fire and the pot-washing water bucket thrown over the attendee who's clothing was melting onto them...

 

[Ubique]

How about this?

https://tuffshop.co.uk/snickers-9462-protecwork-half-zip-wool-shirt-flame-retardant-black.html

Snickers workwear is always good quality, I've bought other stuff of theirs but not that particular item though.

 

[jsf55]

I suffered terrible with my feet being too hot or cold, i found the crane gel insoles in a size bigger boot made a great difference

 

[daleyd]

My clients in the Nordics are the kind of companies who will ask to look at the labels on contractor's self-supplied PPE, and won't let you in if you don't meet their standards...

I’d be asking them what they recommend then, to avoid disappointment. Assuming it’s for work and classed as PPE your company should pick up the tab.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I’d be asking them what they recommend then, to avoid disappointment. Assuming it’s for work and classed as PPE your company should pick up the tab.

The most stringent client's site rules state:

"All garments worn within operational areas shall conform to EN ISO 11612:2015, outerwear shall also conform to EN 1149-5:2008. Alternative certifications (ASTM, CSA, AS/NZS, etc.) shall not be accepted."

Which is pretty definitive, (and clearly written by someone who really loves their ISO standards).

I can expense it all, but if I'm getting multiple sets, I will still be out a fair bit of cash for a month, so if I can keep it reasonable it's in both of our interests.

Getting them to order it on my behalf would be ideal, but would also be an absolute palava... I did that once with a hard hat, never again.

How about this?

https://tuffshop.co.uk/snickers-9462-protecwork-half-zip-wool-shirt-flame-retardant-black.html

Snickers workwear is always good quality, I've bought other stuff of theirs but not that particular item though.

That's looking promising, and a product I hadn't found googling yet...

I suffered terrible with my feet being too hot or cold, i found the crane gel insoles in a size bigger boot made a great difference

I am a big believer in the power of insoles, and the right fit on footwear.

For my work boots I normally fit thin sorbothane blue insoles, then a thermo-mouldable 3/4 orthotic insole, and then the antistatic later of the manufacturers' footbed on top.

 

[daleyd]

"All garments worn within operational areas shall conform to EN ISO 11612:2015, outerwear shall also conform to EN 1149-5:2008. Alternative certifications (ASTM, CSA, AS/NZS, etc.) shall not be accepted."

I’m guessing this will narrow down any recommendations.

 

[Ubique]

I've bought from here before https://www.hazchemsafety.com/flame-resistant-workwear-antistatic-arc/

 

[northwest]

https://www.varusteleka.com/en sell excellent clothing, been buying from them for a long while now.