1.0mm Wire on Single phase?

[Paul G]

Hi All.

I have a 1ph, 200amp welder, and up till now have run 0.8 wire and CO2 gas.

It has 8 voltage steps and the makers plate states a voltage range of 15.5v to 22.5v.
On setting 6, (assuming 1v steps, that's 20.5v,) 0.8 wire tends to burn off well but on 7 & 8 burns off
at what seems to be globular transfer.

I'm contemplating trying 1mm, but before I lash out on wire and a feed roller I thought I'd ask on here
if anyone uses, or has tried it, on a single phase set.

If it works then it would just be for the odd job that crops up as the 0.8 seems to cope with every thing
from car bodywork to a 6mm fillet on 6mm plate.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Paul G

 

[matt1978]

1.0mm wire on a 200 amp machine wouldnt be much cop. I'd stick with the 0.8mm.

You'd be much better off swapping your gas than your wire, something like a 95% Ar 5% Co2 would be perfect.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

1.0mm wire feeds smoothly through the 0.8/0.9mm rollers on my mig welder.

 

[backpurge]

As Matt says, change to an Ar/CO2 mix and you will find it will run a lot better, may be able to get it into spray transfer

 

[dannyp]

my 250a singel phase will carry 1.0mm no problems

running less than 200a a lot of the time as well but you will find the thermal cutout much easyer

 

[Paul G]

Thanks for the replies so far, and I take on board that a change of gas would be beneficial.
I already rent a "W" argon for my TIG and am reluctant to double my gas bill,
but if I could "test run" 5% first I may well go down this route.
The only people I know locally that use a mix run Argoshield Heavy.


My welder is a transformer type plugged into a blue 16a dedicated socket and takes 15kg reels
and is fitted with a Binzel MB25 torch. I may call in on a mate of mine and see if one of his
machines has a reel with a couple of kg's of 1.0mm left on it.

I haven't stated the (well known industrial) make of my welder as I didn't want this thread moved
to the make specific section.
I was hoping for a reply that said:- e.g. My Murex (or whatever) will run 1mm.

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[matt1978]

The make of the machine shouldn't make any difference to your initial question, it's all about the Output welding voltage available from your machine.

You will struggle to get into a proper spray arc with 100% Co2 and won't stand any chance at all with 1.0mm wire.

The 0.8mm will be nice and controllable at the low end for your body repairs etc and with the right gas you will be in spray mode on stuff around 5-6mm.

You will be in mixed arc mode (with lots of spatter) around 3mm'ish

If you had 1.0mm wire and also changed your gas you will still be in dip transfer boarding on mixed arc even for the higher range of your machine. To get into a proper mixed arc in 1.0mm you need to be pushing towards 250 amp.

 

[Paul G]

Failed

I popped over to my mate and borrowed a reel of ESAB's finest, came home and put it on my Lincoln 210,
and tacked up some 10mm plate.

100mm down the fillet and........
blew the trip.


At least I now know the limit of my electricity supply, if not the welder.

Many thanks for all the help. I may well try a change of gas if the opportunity arises.

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[ford34/2]

Trips

I would check the rating of the "TRIP" , different types have different characteristics, Type "B", Type"C" etc.

Stan
I run Lincoln Powertec 231C Mig Welder. 220 amp. 1ph 230v without any problem

 

[Paul G]

It says on the trip:-

Crabtree MCB
B32
61/B32

Not being an expert on this sort of thing I would guess that its 32amp type B ?

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[Country Joe]

It says on the trip:-

Crabtree MCB
B32
61/B32

Not being an expert on this sort of thing I would guess that its 32amp type B ?

Cheers,
Paul G

Yes, it is.

I wouldn't expect a 200 A welder to be tripping 32A breakers all that easily.
Maybe the thicker wire makes a huge difference.
I'm assuming Stan is using a 32A socket/breaker arrangement, and hasn't tripped (as far as I know) - so assumed the difference would be the use of a 16 or 32A breaker - seems you're already using a 32A breaker, though.
I'm guessing the 16A plugs are usually protected by a 16A breaker?

I'd be inclined to do as Matt1978 says, (in his first reply) and stick to the 0.8mm

CJ

 

[madkayaker]

I'm sorry but if Matt says no good then it's no good! What he doesn't know about welders doesn't need to be known

 

[ford34/2]

Circuit

Just double checked I have a type "C" 32 amp breaker, feeding into the garage on armoured cable, My neighbour installed the cable years ago and its bloody thick stuff- 10MM2 I think--compliments of the factory where he worked.!!
Since then the Consumer unit was uprated from the old fuse wire ceramic fuse holders-Wylex? and now conforms to the 17th edition. a lot of the circuits were separated and now all have their individual breaker protection, before, all the lights were on one fuse, all the sockets on another, cooker,shower and garage.
there must be about 12 in this new board + the RCB protection. Brilliant upgrade.
but reading your reply, circuit and protection may not be your problem, not being a sparky its unfair to recommend something that I have no qualifications to do.
Stan

 

[Drains]

Paul, get a D breaker and it'll do the job. TBH I'd still try the 1.0mm wire, as your problem seems to be going into globular transfer at the wrong volts. I bet you don't on 1mm. You probably won't get spray at all, but that doesn't have to be a problem.

 

[wheresmejumper]

i dont think a different type B/C/D breaker will matter as its tripping 4 inches into the run?

 

[matt1978]

The problems he is facing are because he is using 100% Co2.

He won't be in mixed arc with 0.8mm wire on the maximum voltage setting on his machine.

If he got a Argoshield light mix he would be in a nice spatter free spray condition at the top range of his machine.

100% Co2 is never very nice on the higher voltage ranges.

I just don't see the logic of using 1.0mm wire on a small single phase machine with a fairly limited maximum voltage.

But even with the test before his RCD tripped out, 10mm plate??

We have a single phase unit called the m-pro 252 which is 250 amp and with Argoshield light it can get into spray arc with a 1.0mm wire but that's only on the last voltage step at maximum voltage. Incidentally that unit pulls about 28 amps from the mains but we only have 16amp supply at work and have never tripped the RCD, I don't know if its B or C rated. Ill check next week.

There are European norms available that states how much voltage is required to weld at a given amperage (wire feed speed) with a given wire diameter and when we looked at launching this m-pro 252 they looked at the mainstream competition and most on the market didn't give out enough voltage to match the manufactures claims as regards output amperage (200, 250 etc)

That's slightly off topic and off the point so I apologise but the point still remains at the higher levels of his machine then he would ordinarily be in spray arc with 0.8mm wire.

 

[backpurge]

Agree 100% with Matt, far better to have the option of using spray transfer with 0.8mm wire than being limited to dip or maybe globular transfer with 1.00mm wire

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Hi, I'm not meaning to hijack this thread, that is not the intention, but I can source 1.2mm gasless wire (horrid stuff, i know) in 4.5kg rolls and free postage for £20... would 130 amps be sufficient to run this wire, remembering that 50% of its diameter will be flux, rather than steel? Or will it just kill my MIG?

It feeds and runs 1mm no problem..

 

[matt1978]

I don't know anything about the SIP Merlin, are you able to change the polarity from + to -?

 

[SiPMerlin150]

I don't know anything about the SIP Merlin, are you able to change the polarity from + to -?

Sorry, the SIP machine I have is an AC arc welder, I own a 130 amp gasless mig welder aswell. I know, two rubbish welding machines, haha but they are serving their purpose, providing me with lots of welding practise.