Rubberneck (Newbie) Settings ???

[mtboutdoor]

Hi Everyone I purchased a Silverline 100 Gasless Mig welder a few weeks ago with the intention of putting a new set of wings on my mini. Anyway I have been practising on scrap metal and all I get is holes and weld flying around regardless of settings. Iv'e tried all the settings and everything in between neadless to say my mini's restoration has come to a standstill.ANY IDEAS ???

 

[Wozzaaah]

Welcome to the forum MTB, have a search around on here for silverline and you'll find out exactly why you're not getting on very well with it .
It's a shame you didn't find us before buying it .
Current range 50-90A , car bodywork needs as low as possible, 30A is about the maximum you can use before it gets hard work and gasless makes it even more difficult I'm afraid as it runs hotter.

I deleted your duplicate post btw .

 

[mtboutdoor]

ok thanks, so looks like Im stuck with a useless welder (unless I take up sculpting that is !!!!)

 

[Wozzaaah]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news .
Some migs go as low as 25 or even 20A which is perfect for thin bodywork. Anything over 30A becomes difficult to use without blowing holes.

 

[mtboutdoor]

ok thanks again, I could always hire one !

 

[Zagan]

What metal thickness plus what settings are you using.

gasless will cause extra splatter.

Gas makes it easier to weld thin metal I can weld 1mm sheet with high settings on a 330amp gas welder.

If you could provide a pic that would be good.

I have the feeling you move too slow thus blow holes.

 

[mtboutdoor]

Mig welder AMPAGE ????

Hi and Thanks for your reply,
ok I took some photos today of a thin piece of steel I was using to practice welding. Hopefully Iv'e uploaded the photo's ok and you can see my attemps. My mig welder is a Silverline 100 Gasless Amp range 50-90. I have tried welding within the range of all the settings. I even tried slowing down and speeding up on numerous occasions. As Im sure your aware when I slowed down it just blew more holes when I sped up it didn't blow holes but there was virtually no weld left on the steel so I have tried to go at a in-between speed and got a cross between holes to much weld or not enough weld. I sure I would be more successful if I was using thicker metal / steel but there's no point in that as car bodywork as you are aware is quite thin. So to be honest Im at a loss what to do next. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

Mtb.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Current range 50-90A , car bodywork needs as low as possible, 30A is about the maximum you can use before it gets hard work and gasless makes it even more difficult I'm afraid as it runs hotter.

50A is simply wayyyyyyy too high!!
You will not be able to successfully weld thin body panels with your machine without forever blowing holes .
Your best bet is to sell that machine and get something with a lower minimum current, 30A or less.

 

[mtboutdoor]

ok will do

cheers and merry christmas !!!

 

[madkayaker]

lots of people recommend gas over gasless as it burns colder

 

[Zagan]

Hi and Thanks for your reply,
ok I took some photos today of a thin piece of steel I was using to practice welding. Hopefully Iv'e uploaded the photo's ok and you can see my attemps. My mig welder is a Silverline 100 Gasless Amp range 50-90. I have tried welding within the range of all the settings. I even tried slowing down and speeding up on numerous occasions. As Im sure your aware when I slowed down it just blew more holes when I sped up it didn't blow holes but there was virtually no weld left on the steel so I have tried to go at a in-between speed and got a cross between holes to much weld or not enough weld. I sure I would be more successful if I was using thicker metal / steel but there's no point in that as car bodywork as you are aware is quite thin. So to be honest Im at a loss what to do next. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

Mtb.

ok, that's a start not exactly what I was after but it's something, your welder goes is 100amps max it being gasless will mean you'd need to run it a bit hotter than gas.

The pics help a lot.

Major problem is that you haven't welded much and basicly need to do a lot more welding before you'll get into the right groove.

If you can't get the settings right with the current welder you won't get them right with another gasless or gas mig.

car body sheet is 1.2mm thick, it'll be hard for anyone who is learning to weld to start welding on.

anyway, looking at the pics you do have a couple of welds that you have done (at least 3-4) that would give you a starting point setting wise that you'd practise with then tweak then practise some more then have a good go at welding the pannels up.

Because your welder is a switch welder (a weekender for me ) I prefer the stepped corse/fine welder myself offer better control.

You'll be limited settings wise but because it's a baby welder, I don't see why you'd have much problem iun finding a decent setting for 1.2mm steel.

I think you'd be best to start on low/low but up high in the wire feed range I'm not sure what the full wire feed range is on this welder but I'd say start at 7 and see what your result is do a pic of say 5 welds at this setting.

If your going slow and blowing holes try to speed up a little.

See what happens, if that setting isn't working then try high for fine same wire feed and see what happens might may need to drop the wire feed slightly.

See what happens.

 

[Wozzaaah]

ok, that's a start not exactly what I was after but it's something, your welder goes is 100amps max it being gasless will mean you'd need to run it a bit hotter than gas.

The pics help a lot.

Major problem is that you haven't welded much and basicly need to do a lot more welding before you'll get into the right groove.

The major problem is as I described, the machine is not suitable! Gasless wire runs hotter than solid wire with gas so will have more of a tendency to blow holes, especially with a ninimum current as high as 50A

If you can't get the settings right with the current welder you won't get them right with another gasless or gas mig.

Rubbish! Any welder with a minimum current of 30A or lower will give much better results than that gasless one! Some 'automotive' machines go as low as 20A, one new machine recently mentioned on here went as low as 15A I believe.

car body sheet is 1.2mm thick, it'll be hard for anyone who is learning to weld to start welding on.

I think you'll find it's thinner than that, some is as thin as 0.8mm.

Because your welder is a switch welder (a weekender for me ) I prefer the stepped corse/fine welder myself offer better control.

Agree on that part but most 'baby' welders as you call them have switches, some of the 150A and above machines have rotary voltage controls.

You'll be limited settings wise but because it's a baby welder, I don't see why you'd have much problem iun finding a decent setting for 1.2mm steel.

As I've said, I'm certain body panels are thinner than 1.2mm.

I think you'd be best to start on low/low but up high in the wire feed range I'm not sure what the full wire feed range is on this welder but I'd say start at 7 and see what your result is do a pic of say 5 welds at this setting.

He says he's tried all the settings and couldn't find one that was satisfactory.

 

[Zagan]

The major problem is as I described, the machine is not suitable! Gasless wire runs hotter than solid wire with gas so will have more of a tendency to blow holes, especially with a ninimum current as high as 50A

I'd question that, the wire doesn't run hotter it needs to be hotter because it's basically a stick welder you need the heat to make the flux melt and protect the arc which is why I said he'll need to run it a little hotter all this should mean is he needs to speed up.

In other words instead of buying all sorts of welders, he should learn how to weld with what he has now.

Rubbish! Any welder with a minimum current of 30A or lower will give much better results than that gasless one! Some 'automotive' machines go as low as 20A, one new machine recently mentioned on here went as low as 15A I believe.

I use 2 330amp welders and can weld 1.2mm steel higher than 30amps and not blow holes in the steel.

in fact I can't weld at those amps it just way too low you get nothing in terms of penetration and the weld is simply sitting on the steel not even welded properly even on 1.2mm steel.

I think you'll find it's thinner than that, some is as thin as 0.8mm.

It needs to be shaped etc, I checked out some door panels for welding it's around 1.2mm, it's not .8mm at that thickness it'll be bending and flexing too much in the wind as you drove.

Agree on that part but most 'baby' welders as you call them have switches, some of the 150A and above machines have rotary voltage controls.

At 150amp and above all welders should have the dials for course and fine.

He says he's tried all the settings and couldn't find one that was satisfactory.

Which is why he needs to practice with a welder then he;ll get good with that welder and when he needs to upgrade he'll know what he likes in a welder.

If he was to flip to another welder I wouldn't recommend a mig I would say to him to by an inverter stick should he has the option of TIG

It'll be harder to learn but the benefit is that the TIG allows for a much better control of the heat produced.

My other suggestion is he needs to stop welding the flat sheet and actually start welding up some joints as that's what he'll really be welding.

 

[malcolm]

I'd second whoever said get a better MIG welder and run it with gas at least while learning. Clarke is as cheap as I'd go.

You can't compare settings on a decent welder with one of these things - these have poor arc control (no reactor) coupled with poor wire speed control and consistency. Some are even AC! Add to that the difficulties of incorrect volt settings and cheap gasless wire and it would be very difficult for anyone to learn on bodywork thickness. Learning is easier on 1.5mm to 2mm by the way, only after getting the hang of that is it sensible to move to the thinner stuff.

We call them ship anchors, though in reality they aren't really heavy enough to be of any use for that.

 

[Zagan]

The guy should really learn on 3mm mild steel then work towards think sheet metal.

I' never buy one if I was to buy one for the hime I'd be looking at a 280amp single phase welder, offers enough flexibly in metal thickness.

The other way of getting around the heat would be to goto 0.6mm wire or 0.4mm wire that way the heat build up is reduced.

 

[malcolm]

3mm would be a bit thick for a welder claiming 100 amps max at 10% duty cycle (Yes really! And they don't measure duty cycle in the normal way). A learner wouldn't get very far and wouldn't understand penetration. Though many DIY welders will only work on thinner stuff. Lot of it is car work or small repairs, so many are happy with less than 130 amps max and being limited to 3mm.

That machine can't use 0.6mm wire and doesn't have a shielding gas option. Also it's running wrong polarity. Didn't know you could get 0.4mm

 

[mtboutdoor]

Ok I give in

Ok guys having read all your posts Im completely confused now what do I do now ? sell welder ? practice on thicker metal ? or go for it and attack my car with the welder ???? I need a drink !!!!!!!!

 

[malcolm]

Take a drink. Always a good first step.

You haven't got much of a chance with the Silverline gasless. It's not designed for thin car work. Even a professional would probably find it impossible to work with and might well throw it out of a window.

My advice if you are interested in doing car work and are on a budget (in a logical order):

1> Throw the Silverline out of a window. (Disclaimer - first make sure nobody is standing underneath the window who might be hurt by falling glass or welder).

2> Buy a Clarke. Any will do and the choice is down to what's the maximum thickness you want to weld. A new one is easiest for a beginner as it's less likely to have faults. Use shielding gas and normal wire while learning. Big bottle is a good investment as you'll not want to go back to gasless.

3> Follow the tutorials and practice on 1.5mm to 2mm sheet to learn. You should get the hang, but post pictures here if you get stuck. After that go down to bodywork thickness. Don't start with thin stuff as it makes it difficult to develop technique.

Really the welder is the problem.

 

[Archie]

1> Throw the Silverline out of a window. (Disclaimer - first make sure nobody is standing underneath the window who might be hurt by falling glass or welder).

You could always open the window first, thus saving yourself from having to purchase a replacement welder and window.....

 

[malcolm]

You could always open the window first, thus saving yourself from having to purchase a replacement welder and window.....

And where would the drama be in that? Might just as well sell the damned thing to some mug on eBay.