Expenses Apps

[daleyd]

Yeah, I think to the letter of the law your right @Shox Dr but I had no problems and I did it for ~9 years. I think they'd be very unlikely to come after you but this is the IR so who knows

 

[Richard.]

Dont shoot the messenger.

You are receiving a benefit, Iam sure there was [at least talk] of been taxed on stuff like this.

Ok. I will have to look into that.
Didn't think it would be relevant as the benifit is from a different source.
I'm not keen on the idea of been taxed on this so some research needed me thinks.

 

[skotl]

We use expensify at work, and it's free for single users!

https://www.expensify.com/

 

[Richard.]

Yes, it's a benefit in kind.

While I've never heard of anyone being penalised solely for that, I did know someone who had something similar added to other charges during an IR audit (he was a lorry driver, was collecting the old paper coupons when filling the truck on the company card).

It's classed as pretty much the same as having personal use of a company vehicle, that sort of thing.



Edit: I'm not sure if it still applies, but for a time the rate was calculated on the monetary value of the points/coupons - in the t&c there is usually a value attributed to each point, something like 0.001p or something.

Ok thanks.
Looks like I'm probably wrong then.
Sorry @Shox Dr looks like you had it right

 

[HughF]

My work cc gets no use for months then gets hammered up to the limit with long haul flights and a decent hotel room for a week/10 days along with all food/incidentals in the country I'm in. Works fine, up till you get to Myanmar where the work cc (MasterCard) isn't accepted but one of my personal ones (visa) was.

My personal is a BA Amex and I put everything on there and clear it once a month, food, fuel, PayPal, everything I possibly can.

 

[daleyd]

Ok thanks.
Looks like I'm probably wrong then.
Sorry @Shox Dr looks like you had it right

I think it's correct but I really wouldn't be overly concerned mate. Even though I work for a huge company now we still keep points from hotel stays/flights etc even though I don't use my own card any more - and I'm sure it would have been picked up on if it was a big issue.

 

[HughF]

My understanding was that as there was no cash equivalent available then hmrc weren't too interested? For example, avios points I earn when flying ba/aa/etihad when the flights are paid for by the company. I get the avios, not the company.

 

[skotl]

I think it's correct but I really wouldn't be overly concerned mate. Even though I work for a huge company now we still keep points from hotel stays/flights etc even though I don't use my own card any more - and I'm sure it would have been picked up on if it was a big issue.

My understanding was that as there was no cash equivalent available then hmrc weren't too interested? For example, avios points I earn when flying ba/aa/etihad when the flights are paid for by the company. I get the avios, not the company.

I think that's the reality - many people on expenses, or who work away, collect airline and hotel points in their own name and HMRC aren't overly concerned. I suspect it's also a bit of a gray area with personal credit cards that offer rewards - it's your credit card (and risk), after all.

So, for now, it's likely that you're in the company of several million other people. We just need to make sure we don't shout about it too much!

 

[HughF]

What were we talking about again?

 

[HughF]

It isn't financial benefit as there's no cash equivalent... you can't spend the avios like cash.

 

[HughF]

http://www.payroll-help.com/2011/08/11130-taxation-of-airmiles/

 

[skotl]

http://www.payroll-help.com/2011/08/11130-taxation-of-airmiles/

Aha! That explains the entire situation perfectly

Specifically; there is only a Benefit In Kind (BIK / tax implication) if "if the employer has incurred a cost in providing the benefit".

"HMRC’s view is that, as long as air miles, petrol tokens, credit card points, etc (which we will generalise as “scheme rewards”) are acquired on buying goods and services in the same way as any other member of the general public, there is no tax liability. "

So we're in the clear

 

[HughF]

I assume they're always out to get me

 

[skotl]

Bear in mind the example I used happened 20+ years ago so is not exactly current and the article linked there is nearly 6 years old and may also have been superceded.

Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim21618

"In general, air miles, petrol tokens, credit card points etc. acquired by an employee are not taxable if they were acquired in the same way as applies to any other member of the general public, for instance by buying goods or services on which such benefits are given,

Provided the vouchers, air miles or points belong to the employee rather than the employer, they are not considered as being provided by reason of their employment even if the goods or services giving rise to them happen to be purchased as part of the employee’s business travel or using a credit card provided by the employer."​

 

[daleyd]

6 years ago you were, according to second hand information from an unverified source

That may actually have not been far from the truth - I've worked for my current company for about 5 years and I remember it being a grey area when I looked into it when I worked for my previous company (precisely because I was using my own rewards credit card and getting a fair bit of cashback) so maybe they've relaxed the rules a bit?

 

[daleyd]

Seems that way.

Strange, it's not like hmrc to give up a revenue channel - maybe it cost more to chase it around than was gained from the eventual collections...

I imagine they probably never actually prosecuted anyone - I certainly never heard of anything happening - so they maybe just gave up on it? As you say it's not like them to let go of something though dog and bone springs to mind when hmrc are involved!

 

[skotl]

I think the key point is that the employer isn't spending money on the perk, so therefore it can't be viewed as a benefit in kind.

 

[HughF]

what he said ^^^ the flight costs the same whether you take the points or not

 

[skotl]

...and I still recommend @Parm looks at Expensify

 

[Nick67GT]

This is the least of your worries. Make sure they DONT pay you late and cause you bank charges because even if they reimburse you those charges, the potential damage to your credit rating can't be reimbursed. You are well with in your rights to tell them you are either paid the expense on time or your not spending your money.
They could seriously screw things up for you if they cause you to have charges regarding borrowing, mortgages, renting and many other financial benefits could be refused to you. Paying you the charges back doesn't come close to covering the real damage

Thankfully the situation never came about during my time there!