New Work Shop

[Padawan]

Morning Guys,

New to this forum so hopefully this is the right section to ask this question...

Looking to help move a welding workshop into a new larger unit. This unit will be used for possibly 15 or more welding bays.

With regards to electrical requirements, i will need to review what is currently in situ but would like to think a 415V 3phase panel will be sat waiting!

Question is, other than panel sizing, loading etc what considerations would you advise or suggest?
For example, would you say a high level floating electrical supply to enable to plug in within the bay better than a standard install on the wall in conduit?

I know its not much of a question but would be nice to pick up all the ideas now before finishing the install and thinking "AH i wish we had done that instead"

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[WorkshopChris]

Unless there is already something installed probable just supplies run in swa cable. A few years back i looked at the components to extend and modify a 200A bus bar system on a site i was responsible for but it never went ahead as we were looking over £3000 for parts to mod a small area. This kit tends to seriously expensive.
PS welcome to the forum.
What size machines will you be looking at running.

 

[Mee]

I would normally do a layout and print it off on A0 paper, I would normally follow this up with a list of requirements which are must have, would like to have, and can do without.

I would look at what equipment I need to power currently, what I would need to power in the foreseeable future, and what power requirements are available.

You can run conduit and have several fixed sockets dotted around and still have your welding machines fitted with long power leads so you have full reach capability within the working area with 3 phase, and also run conduit and sockets for 110 v so you can run power tools and not have excessively long leads trailing all over the place.

 

[Padawan]

Hi guys...

Unless there is already something installed probable just supplies run in swa cable. A few years back i looked at the components to extend and modify a 200A bus bar system on a site i was responsible for but it never went ahead as we were looking over £3000 for parts to mod a small area. This kit tends to seriously expensive.
PS welcome to the forum.
What size machines will you be looking at running.

Bus bar system is looking a little on the expensive side after a quick review! Machines will vary in size i believe, but when i had a look at the existing equipment they had Invertec 400sx machine which was 400v 3ph on a 30A input.

Thanks for the welcome!

I would normally do a layout and print it off on A0 paper, I would normally follow this up with a list of requirements which are must have, would like to have, and can do without.

I would look at what equipment I need to power currently, what I would need to power in the foreseeable future, and what power requirements are available.

You can run conduit and have several fixed sockets dotted around and still have your welding machines fitted with long power leads so you have full reach capability within the working area with 3 phase, and also run conduit and sockets for 110 v so you can run power tools and not have excessively long leads trailing all over the place.

Good suggestion, i will need to see what other equipment they would be looking to include for within this new unit in the foreseeable... AC units, Drills, grinders etc

 

[GW8IZR]

I know you have already probably thought of this but don't forget ventilation / extraction.

HTH

 

[Parm]

I would normally do a layout and print it off on A0 paper, I would normally follow this up with a list of requirements which are must have, would like to have, and can do without.

I would look at what equipment I need to power currently, what I would need to power in the foreseeable future, and what power requirements are available.

You can run conduit and have several fixed sockets dotted around and still have your welding machines fitted with long power leads so you have full reach capability within the working area with 3 phase, and also run conduit and sockets for 110 v so you can run power tools and not have excessively long leads trailing all over the place.

You'd need a big printer to make A0 prints

 

[Omniata]

You'd need a big printer to make A0 prints

And I'd hate to see the cable size requirements for plugging in 110v all round?
Would be cheaper to provide 110v transformers surely?

 

[bricol]

"You'd need a big printer to make A0 prints"

I have been know to print out selected areas on an A4 laser and then put them all together . . ;-)

Be careful the existing 3 bus bar system is still current - my old place had an obsolete system and were very close to running out of spare contacts and boxes.

 

[Mee]

You'd need a big printer to make A0 prints

No you don't, you can use an A0 printer as we have at work, or you can print it off in sections on standard A4 and stick them together.

And I'd hate to see the cable size requirements for plugging in 110v all round?
Would be cheaper to provide 110v transformers surely?

Its a possibility, but as the OP hasn't provided any real specifics regarding the layout and doesn't know exactly what his requirements are currently, he will have to review all the possibilities and make his own decision on which is the better option for his requirements.

 

[Parm]

No you don't, you can use an A0 printer as we have at work, or you can print it off in sections on standard A4 and stick them together.



Its a possibility, but as the OP hasn't provided any real specifics regarding the layout and doesn't know exactly what his requirements are currently, he will have to review all the possibilities and make his own decision on which is the better option for his requirements.

Ahh that's different, I share an office with some architects and engineers etc and they have a plotter, it's a beast of a thing.......... But I suspect that most people don't have access to such technology.

Instead of dicking around on paper I find it's often easier to get a stick of chalk and Mark out the area for real. Less chance to make mistakes and often easier for the sparky to see for himself what needs to go where

 

[Robotstar5]

Here's one of the welding bays at my last factory.
Each bay is fed with SWA to a main isolator which kills everything in that bay, welder, lighting, sockets etc. (Safety - single point of isolation)
Most bays just had a 32A 3P+N interlocked socket for the welder and a switched fused spur for the lighting.
An air connector or 2 was provided for grinders, linishers, dynafiles etc. (safer than power tools)
Lighting was all weatherproof fittings (to keep grinding dust out) with main overhead and side mounted task lighting (small fittings)
Gas was plumbed in to a shut off valve followed by a flowguage.
Adjustable extractor hood above bench
Benches were fitted with a sacrificial top plate as welders like to clean off any spatter with the grinders and eventually wear the top down
Obviously it depends on your wire consumption, but we had 250kg bulk wire packs outside each bay feeding the wire into the back of the weldset via ESAB conduit.

 

[Parm]

Here's one of the welding bays at my last factory.
Each bay is fed with SWA to a main isolator which kills everything in that bay, welder, lighting, sockets etc. (Safety - single point of isolation)
Most bays just had a 32A 3P+N interlocked socket for the welder and a switched fused spur for the lighting.
An air connector or 2 was provided for grinders, linishers, dynafiles etc. (safer than power tools)
Lighting was all weatherproof fittings (to keep grinding dust out) with main overhead and side mounted task lighting (small fittings)
Gas was plumbed in to a shut off valve followed by a flowguage.
Adjustable extractor hood above bench
Benches were fitted with a sacrificial top plate as welders like to clean off any spatter with the grinders and eventually wear the top down
Obviously it depends on your wire consumption, but we had 250kg bulk wire packs outside each bay feeding the wire into the back of the weldset via ESAB conduit.

View attachment 97297 View attachment 97298

That's top end set up that

 

[Parm]

I got to this place in Dunstable that are geared up for SS, titanium and inconel welding to make flexible gimbals for the space and civil aerospace industries.

It's all money no object set up. Every time I go I always get given a hand full of Wiss sheet metal sheers and files. They are a consumable tool and only used for about 6 weeks

Edit: I would provide photos but all camera phones etc are taken away at the gate house

 

[skotl]

Good to hear about actual implementation of technology, especially with photos to back them up, rather than the fantastical ramblings of a desperate few.

 

[Robotstar5]

Good to hear about actual implementation of technology, especially with photos to back them up, rather than the fantastical ramblings of a desperate few.

I have probably got it completely wrong and don't have a clue what I'm talking about

 

[Parm]

I have probably got it completely wrong and don't have a clue what I'm talking about

Just watch out for the flying ice chunks coming of the gas bottle next to your bench

 

[Parm]

The Internet has provided me with a picture of gimbal quite similar to the one this place makes. Everything made on site. The flex tube is rolled and seam welded sheet, often 5 or 6 laminations. The machine that makes the convolutions in the tube is awesome

Example picture

 

[Robotstar5]

Christ alive, I thought the bays the college erected were cramped

The welders only had to work on one seat frame at a time, you can see the size of the master samples painted blue in the pic...

 

[Mee]

Ahh that's different, I share an office with some architects and engineers etc and they have a plotter, it's a beast of a thing.......... But I suspect that most people don't have access to such technology.

Instead of dicking around on paper I find it's often easier to get a stick of chalk and Mark out the area for real. Less chance to make mistakes and often easier for the sparky to see for himself what needs to go where

The OP doesn't appear to have access to the building yet and the information he needs, string and chalk are further options to mark out when he makes his decisions.

 

[Jim Davey]

Don't forget about making provision for fume extraction. It's a lot easier to plan an implement successfully if you do it from the start rather than having to lash something up in a hurry after a visit from the HSE.