TIG welding 1050 aluminium

[Mid Wales welder]

Afternoon all,

I had a guy doing a weld test on some 1050 aluminium the other day. It was 5mm thick material, fillet weld in PB (flat/horizontal), straight out of the wrapper, all cleaned, brand new 3.2 zirconiated tungsten ground on a deadicated grinder, clean 2.4 4043 filler wire (that's all they had), all new tourch head parts, 8-10lpm pure argon, 65% EN on the balance and 120 Hz. The guy was a decent welder too, the problem was that no matter what we did it was coming out dirty and grey and was really hard to get a puddle going. I have read up about 1050 since and it says when welding to itself to use 1100 filler wire, but can that really be what's wrong?! Would love some opinions please?!

 

[Chris Stevens]

Afternoon all,

I had a guy doing a weld test on some 1050 aluminium the other day. It was 5mm thick material, fillet weld in PB (flat/horizontal), straight out of the wrapper, all cleaned, brand new 3.2 zirconiated tungsten ground on a deadicated grinder, clean 2.4 4043 filler wire (that's all they had), all new tourch head parts, 8-10lpm pure argon, 65% EN on the balance and 120 Hz. The guy was a decent welder too, the problem was that no matter what we did it was coming out dirty and grey and was really hard to get a puddle going. I have read up about 1050 since and it says when welding to itself to use 1100 filler wire, but can that really be what's wrong?! Would love some opinions please?!

I weld 1050 pretty much every day, and use either 5356 or 1050 filler, and no real problems. Might be worth checking if it welds ok with another machine?

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I weld 1050 pretty much every day, and use either 5356 or 1050 filler, and no real problems. Might be worth checking if it welds ok with another machine?

That's what I thought! There is something wrong but can't work it out, the machine was pretty new and did some welds on 6082 and was fine.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Its very rare, but dont discount getting a sheet which is contaminated in some way. 1050 isnt as nice to weld as 6000 series though.

 

[TechnicAl]

What was used to clean the joint and how long between cleaning and welding.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Its very rare, but dont discount getting a sheet which is contaminated in some way. 1050 isnt as nice to weld as 6000 series though.

Contamination is the only thing left really isn't it, just thought I would ask in case I was being daft and overlooking something simple.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

What was used to clean the joint and how long between cleaning and welding.

Cleaned with scotch bright and acetone

 

[Brad93]

Why clean the sheet if it's brand new? Also why so much gas. Was he using a gas lens?

 

[Chris Stevens]

Contamination is the only thing left really isn't it, just thought I would ask in case I was being daft and overlooking something simple.

Tried welding the same material with another machine, and checking if the result is the same?

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Why clean the sheet if it's brand new? Also why so much gas. Was he using a gas lens?

Didn't clean it first go, so tried cleaning and got same result. He was using a standard collet and No7 ceramic as its all he had, 8lpm at the torch.

They only had the one machine to use.

 

[TechnicAl]

Why clean the sheet if it's brand new? Also why so much gas. Was he using a gas lens?

Aluminium forms an oxide layer that causes porosity. The older the plate the thicker the layer (there is a limit). With Aluminium you always get porosity its a question of how much. So the first 3 rules for welding it are.........Clean it........Clean it again.......and clean it again

 

[zeppelin builder]

its a gas problem turbulence pulling in air get an assistant to adjust the flow rate whilst you are welding and see if there is an improvement i would use at least a no 8 ceramic with gas lens preheat to at least 100 c to remove any moisture in joint and check for gas leaks it should run bright and clean,i wouldnt use scotchbrite i would use a new stainless rotary brush or bearing scraper abrasives tend to contaminate the weld pool

ps try another argon bottle i had this problem once it can happen if the empty bottle is left wide open and air gets in before refilling

 

[Brad93]

@TechnicAl I understand the oxide layer but the EP portion of the AC cycle takes care of that though. What are we talking about here, making welds to pass a simple fillet test or welding pressure vessels from aluminium that need to pass a code?

I've worked with guys coded for fillets and they most certainly were not wire brushing their aluminium.

 

[zeppelin builder]

as they say cleanliness is next to INVERNESS

 

[TechnicAl]

@TechnicAl I understand the oxide layer but the EP portion of the AC cycle takes care of that though. What are we talking about here, making welds to pass a simple fillet test or welding pressure vessels from aluminium that need to pass a code?

I've worked with guys coded for fillets and they most certainly were not wire brushing their aluminium.

The "cleaning effect" wont compensate for inadequate cleaning

 

[Brad93]

So brand new sheet just had the protective plastic peeled off needs to be cleaned to make a sound weld is what you are saying? I presume you mean by wire brushing?

 

[TechnicAl]

So brand new sheet just had the protective plastic peeled off needs to be cleaned to make a sound weld is what you are saying? I presume you mean by wire brushing?

Depending on what sort of results you need........yes

and there are specialist cleaning materials.......scotchbrite, a stainless wire brush never used for anything else, or special cutters etc etc...Not silicon carbide or aluminium oxide......a good shop will tell you the trade names.....then degrease and then wrap in cling film until ready (how long again depends on what you need)

The oxide readily forms and contains water. The molten Ally will absorb loads of hydrogen (from the water) but when it cools it will absorb virtually none so all that hydrogen has to get out......and its usually trapped.

 

[Chris Stevens]

So brand new sheet just had the protective plastic peeled off needs to be cleaned to make a sound weld is what you are saying? I presume you mean by wire brushing?

I find I can get pretty good welds without spending time cleaning new sheet which the film has just been removed from..........................what about you?

 

[TechnicAl]

I find I can get pretty good welds without spending time cleaning new sheet which the film has just been removed from..........................what about you?

You probably would for the most part but you cannot be certain and if its a critical joint can you / would you risk it?

 

[Brad93]

Funnily enough recorded some videos for the forum aimed at new members and said new aluminium didn't need to be cleaned other than degreased. But for beginners I suppose they wouldn't need to but for critical joints I see what you're saying now. So it's basically hydrogen embrittlement in an aluminium weld because of micro pockets of gas that cannot escape?