Welding in the wind, A Level Project.

[LewisRoberts]

Hi all.

I have limited welding experience, I used MIG to Make a large Steel structure for last years D+T Project and thats about it.

For this years D+T (Design And Technology Project) I have to solve a problem for a client.

The client is a ship builder based in Birkenhead- United Kingdom. The problem is that due to the work being carried out outside, The wind blow's the argon gas away from the weld, resulting in a weaker weld.

Does anyone know of any products on the market that solve this problem so i can include them in my research, or does anyone have any advice towards how i would go about doing it, i have a few ideas already but would like some experts opinions!

any advice would be greatefully recieved.

Cheers.

Lewis

 

[fingers99]

Obvious ways out with normal ship dimensions of steel are to use flux cored MIG wire (I'm assuming MIG), Arc, or use tarps to keep the wind out.

The construction industry in the States uses enormous gasless MIG sets for sticking skyscrapers together.

 

[LewisRoberts]

thanks a lot, that all sounds good. but i need to actually design and manufacture something thats going to solve it, like some sort of shield, or somehting.

 

[fingers99]

Something like a plastic curtain, hangs from the gunwales, weighted at the bottom, blow up D shaped members to keep it away from the welders. stuck on with velcro for access?

 

[snowcat]

thanks a lot, that all sounds good. but i need to actually design and manufacture something thats going to solve it, like some sort of shield, or somehting.

Fluxcore solves it as does stick.... that why its used

 

[Hitch]

You can get elephant tents, put your work in one of them, of some can be adapted to suit what your doing.

 

[teamtom]

you could design some sort of shield that can attach to your torch? that you can rotate all the way around depending on which way the wind is blowing, A bit like a "cut off tool".

 

[Luke]

I can't really see how to improve on
-a tarp/barrier/screen
- not welding outside

any product that is designed or made is going to be very careful of not being too specialised - thus limiting its use. I imagine that if you fitted something to the torch the welders would rip it off in ten minutes or so through not being able to see what they're doing!!

 

[Drains]

Lewis, designing something to shield the gas seems stupid (sorry), as there are much better ways of doing outdoor welding than gas shielded mig.

Although, having said that - if it were possible to design some form of shield/ shroud that would allow outdoor gas shielded welding, and it was you that found the solution- you'd be well in the money!

This may be one of those problems where "received wisdom" goes completely against what you wish to do, yet persistence in ignoring that wisdom, then finding a solution, if it is at all possible, may pay off.

I would say though, it's almost certainly not worth going down the route of a windbreak of any form, other than a building with walls and roof, as windbreaks are loads of work to move around and therefore don't save money in comparison to flux core. Really, don't waste your time going that way.

Flux core is absolutely that standard solution to high volume outdoor shipyard work, but it does cost more than gas shield. Make outdoor gas shield viable and you will have a very happy bank manager.

 

[fingers99]

I think this is more a hypothetical type design/exam question rather than owt really practical. (Otherwise, a quick 'phone call to Lairds would soon reveal the "right" answer.)

 

[snowcat]

It may be a hypothetical question..... but a badly thought out one, wind removing the gas is only part reason why solid wires are used, flux cores also have added benefits of positional ease and better pen...

I wish, teachers, lecturers exam boards etc, would do some R&D of there own and set tasks that offer real solutions, I'm sure a few minutes on the phone to the TWI, bardocks, or even local fabricator would have resulted in a real problem that needed a souloution......

 

[fingers99]

I agree -- out of, what, 10,000 answers there should be a few that are real world solutions.

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

it's the way it is in schools and colleges...

as a telecomms student in the mid 70's we had one bearded woolley-jumpered clown who set us the task of communicating from one building to another without using Post Office Telephones lines or equipment.

Regards
Peter

 

[Robotstar5]

Hi,as a telecomms student in the mid 70's we had one bearded woolley-jumpered clown who set us the task of communicating from one building to another without using Post Office Telephones lines or equipment.

Regards
Peter

And so, Vodaphone was born!!

 

[malcolm]

Lucky stroke that I wasn't in that class. Otherwise we'd all now be communicating using a system based on throwing pebbles at windows and shouting very loudly.

 

[Robotstar5]

Lucky stroke that I wasn't in that class. Otherwise we'd all now be communicating using a system based on throwing pebbles at windows and shouting very loudly.

So you'd be looking at some form of framework for carrying the window, maybe on your back and pockets with different sized pebbles in

 

[Muggins the Mug]

thanks a lot, that all sounds good. but i need to actually design and manufacture something thats going to solve it, like some sort of shield, or somehting.

I know this is an old thread, but I don't understand why someone would want to try to re-invent the wheel. I'm not against innovation, but we already have "off the shelf" technology that is well-proven and fast to use.

Regards,

Ian.

 

[weldingscotty803]

why dont you design some kind of curtain with magnets stitched in with a d-shaped pole that will come round the worker and it will stop the wind passing round but not under

just a thought

 

[aidank]

another wuold be to design the nozzle such that the gas comes out in a spiral rather than in straight lines , use CFD to analyse the effects...........

 

[rodofgod]

Hi All!

snowcat, I believe the answer to your question is a process called 'Innersheild'. This is a completely gasless welding process, using MIG equipment, invented by Lincoln welding.It is used for bridge and ship construction and is designed for outdoor work.

Other than that, the only alternative is MMA, which ,technically could require wind protection.

Hope this helps!
Regards