Argon gas bad for health?

[shenion]

I have been a certified driver for 28 years.

I know they don't use argon mix underwater as it is worse than nitrogen under water.

I suggest you read about Argox.

The idea is breathing an argon mix would reduce your decompression time. As it could only be used at the last part of decompression (9-15m due to the narcosis effects under pressure) it is not practical.

 

[steve nunn]

Bit of a difference between a Commercial diver actually using the mixes and a Sports diver.

You are wrong on this point, argon gas if breathed in as a pure gas will stay in yuor lungs and cannot be breathed out.

Also page 8, bearing in mind this is a data sheet for argon gas:

Chronic: Protracted inhalation of air contaminants may lead to their accumulation in the lungs, a condition that may be seen as dense areas on chest x-rays. The severity of change is proportional to the length of exposure.

ie, it stays in your lungs and can be seen under x-ray

 

[shenion]

Aveyrthing in the MSDS after the first few pages has nothing to go with argon. It talks about gases in general. The first page is for argon, the rest is the same for all gases.

The section you referrred to talks about welding fumes, not argon. welding fumes will contain heavy metals, that can be seen on an xray.

Argon is not a "contaminent"

 

[steve nunn]

Argon gas is a contaminant to the normal constituent makeup of air. 100% argon is not part of the makeup of air therefore it is a contaminant.

'Aveyrthing in the MSDS after the first few pages has nothing to go with argon. It talks about gases in general. The first page is for argon, the rest is the same for all gases.'

Its under the Other Information Section.

Ahhh, well that would explain why it was under NOTES TO PHYSICIAN: about chronic, obviously because it has nothing to do with argon, so they were just being nice to the Dr and letting him know about things that have nothing to do with argon - nice of them.

And the acute and chronic information isnt the same for all gases - as a diver you know that oxygen poisioning is different from argon in the lungs.

Im off to bed, and youre still wrong on this point.

 

[fingers99]

I'm pretty sure that no elemental gasses (unless rendered radioactive) will show up on Xray. Obviously, if an inhaled gas has somehow caused scar tissue, that will show up. You'd expect this to be the case with chlorine, for example.

Given a sealed room -- say 12 foot high -- Helium or Hydrogen will have the same asphyxiant effects as Argon or CO2. The difference is, you'll wake up when you pass out and start breathing air again.

To return to the OPs point, the only effective mask would be a mask fed with compressed air.

Pointless, though -- there are cheaper ways to do immersion welding!

 

[rtbcomp]

If a heavier gas settled out from a mixture of it and a lighter gas (or more accurately a more dense gas...less dense) the we wouldn't be able to use a CO2/Argon mixture, and under the pressure of such a mixture the CO2 would liquify.

When you mix gasses n the correct manner they diffuse as people say above and act as one gas.

There was a disaster where the population of a village died because CO2 (or was it methane?) from a lake flooded it. If the CO2 was released more slowly it would have diffused and not caused a problem.

 

[hotrodder]

Pure argon out of a bottle will settle in your lungs.

Just a thought... Consider the mechanics of breathing. Contraction/relaxtion of the diaphragm and intercostal muscles alters the volume of the thoracic cavity, creating a pressure differential.

Gases (hopefully fresh air!) are forced into and out of the lungs to achieve equilibrium. Boyles law.

With argon being a noble gas it can only effect respiration by excluding oxygen which would involve LOTS of argon AND an enclosed space. Obviously the smaller the space the greater the danger

Other gases such as CO are FAR more dangerous- CO has a higher affinity for haemoglobin and binds far more strongly than O2 reducing the amount of oxygen in the blood even if adequate amounts of O2 are inhaled. IIRC once CO and haemoglobin have 'mated' it's pretty much game over. The haemoglobin remains as carboxyhaemoglobin (unless special measures are taken) until the blood cells are replaced by the body (30ish day cycle?)

Rick,
There's plenty of potential dangers from welding (and most other pastimes/jobs). Radiation from the arc produces ozone (amongst others) which is none to healthy. Welding some alloys can produce nasty fume (hexavalent chromium from stainless for example) but TIG is a far 'cleaner' process than others- very little fume and particulates are produced as the filler isn't transfered across the arc, generally all that is required is adequate ventilation.

 

[snowcat]

Too answer THE POSTERS ORIGINAL POINT!!!.... Nope Argon will not hurt you unless you use it in confined spaces underground etc...

Very true Matt's point and Iv done a fair bit of work around grain store pits, which you had to be carefull of not only a build of welding gases, avoid the use of propane etc.... but also be aware rotten grain could produce methane, CO2 etc and essentially kill you...so making sure you had a buddy at ground level before drooping down the ladder, various rules also apply on the underground tunnels...

BUT in normal use it ain't gonna hurt you..

 

[Rick]

Thanks to all the replies on here. Made for an interesting read.
Even better now i know i'm not going to die just yet

 

[Weldingartisan]

Quite so Rick, I'd hate to know half the ****e that I've breathed in over the last 40 years but I'm pretty sure my lungs still ain't full of it! Just be sensible, you are at far greater risk from metal fume than from argon and as a hobbyist that is probably negligable. W/A

 

[TechnicAl]

http://www.cawstonparish.info/Upside down men Large Web view.jpg

3 welders taking a break

 

[rtbcomp]

http://www.cawstonparish.info/Upside down men Large Web view.jpg

3 welders taking a break

LMAO - you can get a nice range of PPE these days!

 

[snowcat]

nahhh this is standard wear round our way.....

 

[TechnicAl]

snowcat

are you sure

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/93/207891426_773fe934b5.jpg

 

[rtbcomp]

snowcat

are you sure

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/93/207891426_773fe934b5.jpg

He seems to enjoy having a pair of chaps round his legs.

 

[snowcat]

snowcat

are you sure

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/93/207891426_773fe934b5.jpg

Blimmy you wouldn't want a rouge spark in that

 

[Knipex]

ie, it stays in your lungs and can be seen under x-ray

Steve.

If your lungs were a solid tank then yes I would agree with you but your lungs are not. They are in effect bags that expand and contract having air forced in and out of them. The fact that argon is heavier than air makes no difference to how they operate.

There is a percentage of your lung volume that you do not exhale as they cannot be fully contacted but on each inhalation this air is mixed with fresh incoming air and displaced on the next breath.

This bears through for any gas (as long as you continue to breath.)

 

[tttonyyy]

Apologies for reviving this rather ancient thread but I stumbled across it when googling about Argon density for another application (funny how quite a few queries seem to come back here).

This reminds me of being a student and putting a coil of aluminium tubing in the freezer and then squirting a smoke machine through it. The tubing would chill the air and it would form a layer of smoke on the floor, a bit like you'd see with dry ice. Of course it was just air with particles in and perfectly miscible with all the other air in the room, just slightly denser. So I would suspect Argon would behave in a similar way. Eventually it would diffuse into still air, but if there is any agitation then the process is quicker.

So I don't think Argon would sit at the bottom of lungs as the agitation of breathing would assist its diffusion.

 

[keith19]

It has been used in a number of fairly peaceful (?) suicides. But that involved deliberately piping it into the lungs; it displaces air quickly enough then...

 

[BrokenBiker]

i can be used for suicide as long as it is either concentrated enough, in a confined space, as it does diplace the oxygen, so essentially, you get no oxygen around the body, and die

breathing it in through a mask or out of a hose will do the same,

but then again so will sticking your lips around an exhaust pipe and inhaling a few times, but we dont wear fume masks when walking around city centres

in small amounts its fine, in concentrated form it can be dangerous