Hand held belt sander for wood-do they leave marks like G/discs?

[mart]

I am interested in buying a belt sander-the hand held type not the fixed bench type. I can sort out the brand I require, but would welcome advice on whether these machines would help with what I am doing.

It would be used on timber to sand over the joints. I made some lap joints on furniture. I am not a joiner and it shows by the standard of the joints. So, I ran the angle grinder over the end of the joints using fibre sanding discs and the joints look fine now. The only problem I have is the round marks on the wood where the sanding disc bites in. Even using it lightly with a fine grade disc will leave marks. So, would a small belt sander with fine grade belts get around this issue? If anyone has one and has used it on wood I would be interested to hear your views. Thanks

 

[fingers99]

It'll certainly be better. As always, the trick is to sand in the direction of the grain.

 

[shenion]

Both circual and belt sanders will leave marks from the edge of the pad.

The best is an orbital sander as it does a more random pattern.

I have a 1/3 sheet vibrating sander that works well and was real cheap. If I were to buy one now, it would be an orbital sander.

 

[fingers99]

On a good day -- and for light(ish) use you can pick up both a belt sander and a random orbital sander for less than £30 from Netto or Lidl.

The random orbital ones are great for car bodywork -- never used one for woodworking.

 

[AndyP]

Random orbit sanders are truly the Mutts Nuts when it comes to sanding wood, especially when the grain goes in different directions as in corner joints. Belt sanders are too aggressive and can't deal with cross grain and standard orbital sanders leave small circular scratches that show when a finish is applied.
You can get a bloody good RO sander with variable speed from Wickes for under £20 IIRC, a friend of mine got one for sanding body panels on my advice and it amazed him how good it was.
As a carpenter the random orbit sander is the only one I would consider.

HTH
Andy

 

[Hitch]

Belt sanders are pretty viscious, especially on softwoods. THe trick would be to run it over to flatten it off, then go over along with the grain to remove serious marks.

A random Orbit sander will probably be a bit better tbh. With a course thaey can remove a fair bit of material, but with a fine disc, can leave a decent finish.

 

[mart]

"You can get a bloody good RO sander with variable speed from Wickes for under £20 IIRC"

Andy,I will check them out at Wicks-it won`t get a great deal of use so they should be ok (what is IIRC)?

 

[knoba]

All valid view points!

I do a fair bit of joinery myself and I use a variable speed belt sander. I use grades from 40 to 150 and for gentler work; I just use the old worn belts, that I keep, on a much slower speed.

IMHO; You won't beat belt sanders for sheer speed or for flattening work.

...and for a superb final finish; wire wool, by hand, rules!

Can you post a pic of the joint?

 

[AndyP]

"You can get a bloody good RO sander with variable speed from Wickes for under £20 IIRC"

Andy,I will check them out at Wicks-it won`t get a great deal of use so they should be ok (what is IIRC)?

IIRC= If I recall correctly

 

[AndyP]

IIRC= If I recall correctly

This is the model I have used for years, it's actually £29.99 now but comes with a 3yr guarantee, so you know it'll last at least that long. The one my mate bought a few months ago must have been on a special at the time. Strangely my 'professional' one packed up in no time but this one keeps going.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Sanders/480W-Random-Orbit-Sander/invt/186873

Hope that helps
Andy

 

[mart]

Thanks Andy-i was looking at those last night after your post. Those random orbit sanders do seem the tool for final sanding without marks.

Knoba-they are top joints. I would love to stand and watch you make those. Did you use a router/jig or were they cut by hand? Either way i am impressed.

I am pleased you asked about a photo at the bottom of your post. It really is the marks made by my grinder that i want to remove-now we are getting down to the real issue. When you look at these marks, your idea of using the belt sander in various ways may well be the answer.

 

[AndyP]

Thanks Andy-i was looking at those last night after your post. Those random orbit sanders do seem the tool for final sanding without marks.

Knoba-they are top joints. I would love to stand and watch you make those. Did you use a router/jig or were they cut by hand? Either way i am impressed.

I am pleased you asked about a photo at the bottom of your post. It really is the marks made by my grinder that i want to remove-now we are getting down to the real issue. When you look at these marks, your idea of using the belt sander in various ways may well be the answer.

Why are you using a grinder on wood , a RO sander will clean that up as good as anything, a belt sander will just tear up the cross grain and you'd have to use a RO to finish it anyway.

 

[knoba]

Hi mart,

I love looking at what other people are making too! ...It's all good. What furniture are you making?

The joints in my picture are sliding blind dovetails. I used a router & router table initially, and then hand tuned the joints with some very sharp double bevel chisels. Softwood joints can be much more difficult than hardwood ones. Thanks for your compliments!

I guess, ideally, your question would never come up as the joints would be cut to such close tolerances that it would avoid any heavy sanding after the assembly stage. Unfortunately; life is rarely that kind to any of us. Some basic tools that can help you cut these joints accurately, every-time, are; a marking gauge, a marking knife (stanley), a square, tape measure, tenon saw and a good bench area.

Everyone has valid view points and it obviously works well for them. If I had to choose my first, good, all round sander, it would be a belt sander - hands down! I find the consumables are much cheaper, last much longer, remove much more stock and the sander has a greater range and adaptability. I'd use the RO for fine finishing, but not for fabricating. I would use the belt sander, largely, for pre-assembly work and some finishing jobs.

The marks are pretty deep! Trying to achieve a flatness across them will leave a hollowed joint section, whatever sander you choose. With a belt sander, in this particular case; the width of the belt sander plattern must be smaller than the width of the wood you are trying to sand, as the piece is already assembled. Other wise you may have no option other than buying an RO.

If your happy with a hollow, and the wood width is greater than the sander's plattern; I would, confidently, bed in a new 120 belt and gently sand in from the left (with the grain and constantly moving) until the abrasive 'just' starts skimming into the upright, do the same from the right and then take out the upright along its grain without touching the side rails (if your feeling uneasy; you can clamp bits of wood to the side rails to prevent abrading them).

If the sander is only for occasional use I'd consider an RO.

 

[mart]

Andy P: I used an angle grinder on wood for the following reasons. The lap joints were so poor that there was a protruding lip of about 3mm i.e. they were not cut/made very well. I do not have a belt sander, and if I had one then this would have been my tool of choice to clean up the poor workmanship. (If the joints had been made to the same standard as Knoba`s, then there would have been no need to use anything other than wire wool) I thank you for your suggesting an RO sander and I am going down to Wicks today. I understand though that these are for “finishing” and not for rectifying a pig’s ear of a joinery job like I made.

As Knoba says, “everyone has a valid point” and I agree. The points made in your last post (knoba) are interesting and useful too, and I thank you for going in to detail. Yes I will get a marking gauge today also. I am assuming the Stanley knife is to mark the line of cut (I have just been using a sharp pencil) but I will start to use a knife also. I am only working on lap joints at the moment, but any websites that gives clear guidance may be helpful (if any you know of come to mind).

 

[AndyP]

A RO sander will shift material just as well as a belt sander with the right disc attached. I think a lot of people make assumptions about them without actually ever trying them. They are certainly the only sander I will ever buy in future.
If you need more than that , you really need a plane.

Cheers
Andy

 

[mart]

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Sanders/480W-Random-Orbit-Sander/invt/186873

I have just been and got this from Wicks (review later!)

Yes i know what you mean about assumptions. As i have never used one or seen one (except in an Argos cat) i to rely on the opinions/advice on here.

 

[AndyP]

http://www.wickes.co.uk/Sanders/480W-Random-Orbit-Sander/invt/186873

I have just been and got this from Wicks (review later!)

Yes i know what you mean about assumptions. As i have never used one or seen one (except in an Argos cat) i to rely on the opinions/advice on here.

Then you'll need good quality discs, I use screwfix for mine, and don't forget your dustmask.
Cheers Andy