Speed-arc (and variants) VS flux cored

[Sarto]

Hi to all.
I have a question about the differences in MIG welding in positions different from horizontal, using the new machines with the fast pulse option (in the various flavours) or the flux cored or metalcored wire with gas.

I would like if you could explain which is:
- easier
- more economical for the plant
- more economical for the wire
- more productive
- etc etc

As usual I can't afford a Mig at this time so it's only for informational purpose.

Thanks to all.

SARTo

 

[MichaelV]

Buonasera Sarto

Others will come along and comment on the use of solid wire in pulse arc. However, I'll offer a couple of comments on the use of FCAW+GS. This process is used very widely in structural fabrication, especially in offshore structures, bridges, ship-building and numerous heavy applications. Typically, a rutile cored wire with gas shielding is capable of running in spray transfer in most (sometimes all) welding positions. The 'tubular" nature of cored wire means it operates with a very high current density, which in turn facilitates high deposition rates. Quality cored wires tend to be rather more costly than solid wire, but they offer great flexibility and can lead to reduced handling of parts and assemblies otherwise needed to allow down-hand spray transfer in solid wires.

I've seen cored wire used to great effect in bridge and offshore structural fabrication, where quality, productivity and widespread need for positional work are big factors.

Cheers
Michael

 

[matt1978]

The faster welding Pulse processes, which dramtically increase deposition compared to standard Pulse processes are for solid wires and to get maximum effect in the flat/horizontal positions. Something such as SpeedArc, which is a modified Spray can also be used on Flux/Metal cored wires, so you get a win/win effect.

For positional welding there are Hybrid processes specifically for vertical T-Fillets etc and these are at least doubly as quick as solid wires in the same application but still not no where near as fast as Flux wires for these types of joints.

Neither processes, or wire types are anymore or any less demanding on the Powersource.

It really boils down too....

Clever/Expensive Machine used with a "stupid" wire

Or

"Stupid" machine used with a clever/expensive wire

The clever machine costs a lot more initially, but the higher cost of the consumable will always be there for the life time of the job or application

 

[Sarto]

Ok, now things start to clear a bit.
In comparison to the classic solid wire, a comparable size flux cored wire (eg 1mm solid - 1,2mm flux cored) is
A LOT more pricey or just a bit?
I was looking to a flux cored stainless steel wire (esab shield bright 309L X-tra).
They write it works with straight CO2. It is thanks to the slag that it works this way, without oxidation problems?


SARTo

 

[matt1978]

I would imagine it was a 82/18 Ar/Co2 mix gas not a 100% Co2

Flux cored wires are usually a lot more expensive compared to solid wires of a similar diameter, usually at least double.

 

[TechnicAl]

Ok, now things start to clear a bit.
In comparison to the classic solid wire, a comparable size flux cored wire (eg 1mm solid - 1,2mm flux cored) is
A LOT more pricey or just a bit?
I was looking to a flux cored stainless steel wire (esab shield bright 309L X-tra).
They write it works with straight CO2. It is thanks to the slag that it works this way, without oxidation problems?


SARTo

Usually most manufacturers make 2 cored wires for every grade. One spefically for downhand and the other one for positional work. One uses straight CO2 and the other can use both............and I cant effing remember which is which.......but you can look it up if its important

Theres quite a strong market for straight CO2 cored wires in the USA.......so the AWS supports this

 

[Richard.]

I don't know about the rutile wires but basic FCW Down hand only runs best in straight CO2 and neg polarity iirc. All the rutile wires ive used have been all positional in mixed gas usually positive polarity. I've not used a down hand only rutile.