cebora push pull gun only 180-200 max current ? wall of text.

[Macgyver]

So guys, we recently baught a cebora 2740 sound mig with synergic and pulse on it. art 306,
we got that crappy push pull 2003 gun that has a duty cycle of 40 % on 160 amp, and the machine had a duty cycle of 240 amp 100 %, and ofcourse welding now for barely 1 month we relise that its not just the program on the machine thats making it impossible to turn it higher. its the machine ''knowing'' what mig gun we are using, not only that but in the documents of the machine it says that the push pull gun art 2003.39 is a spessial version of the 2003, and its supose to be used with the cebora 2740 machine,
but there is absolutely no information about what the difference is.

so we contacted the dealer and was told that eather we gotta move up to a standar '' heavy duty '' mig gun capeble of 280 amp air-cooled. but it doesent have push pull. and obviusly we dont need a 380 amp water-cooled one since the thickest materials we weld is about 10 mm,

and to be honest i would love to have a standard mig gun, but the machine is big and heavy with the argon on the back, so draging the machine everywhere isnt really fun, so having a 13 feet long cable to work with makes life easyer.

so i checked Lincoln and miller and just like i thought, here we have 200 pluss amp with 60-80 % duty cycle

so i need some help, how long would aluminum 1.2 wire work with no push pull, and have anyone else had cebora. and rewired the push pull for another brand push pull like, Lincoln or anything else.
I would really love more then anything to roll around and climb into those large boxes im welding to have a beast like the Magnum push pull gun. but for now. im stuck with a 10 k dollar cebora machine with onle 160 amp 40 % duty OR pay another 3 k dollar to upgrade to a water-cooled 380 amp push pull gun, that is the same thing, just with some more hoses inside.

I talked to one of the storage man at the local store and he said there might be a chanse to exchange it back for another torch and pay the difference. but really dont want a bulky water-cooled one, and not a 160 amp air-cooled. wonder why cebora haven't upgraded their guns when the same one have been used for the last 10 years.

 

[Jim Davey]

Sounds like you are getting ripped off by your local dealer, the most expensive push pull gun system I could sell you wouldn't come to more than £1,500 and that's in rip off Britain where stuff costs more than just about anywhere.

 

[AndersK]

...Britain where stuff costs more than just about anywhere.

Ask him what a pizza and a beer is in Norway and you'll understand why we think UK is a low cost country

I got my Parweld foot control from the UK. Landed here at half price including shipping...

 

[Jim Davey]

That's a Btritish company shipping out to you, isn't there a local company doing a push pull you can buy cheaper? A Binzel from Germany maybe? Are you part of the Euro or is it still Kronors in Norway?

 

[Jim Davey]

Easy to fit a Binzel, drop me a PM and ill talk you through the process.

 

[Macgyver]

Sounds like you are getting ripped off by your local dealer, the most expensive push pull gun system I could sell you wouldn't come to more than £1,500 and that's in rip off Britain where stuff costs more than just about anywhere.

well the gun itself isnt more then probably 2 k Euros. if i calculate aprox the value of the euroes.
but the machine was about 10 k dollars.
with pushpull torch.

we get the cebora stuff from t.bentsen here in norway wich i think gets it all shipped from italy.
i tok some photos of the plug of the cebora welder. its a 14 pin.
but it has a interface Kit, (wich i dont really know what is ) i guess just the adjustments of wirespeed/amp/thickness.

and yea, i got comfirmed that the gun gets fried if it is used over 180 amp today. asked to return the whole machine and gun, to replace with a lincon, or a C3000i Esab. we dont know yet, maybe we will keep this one since we had it for about 2 months ''allready''.
but seriously. if u wanna find out some tragic ****. just check out the instruction manual of the 2003 art push pull from cebora. the initial instruction its not even suppose to use 1.2 mm wire. so i guess thay just ''added'' it.
but as the mail from cebora themself said was that the gun is used for repair and automobile work, so more then 180 amp is never.
pizza is ready. ill check out binzel and research some more. push pull is a really big need for us as we are working in wierd angles and in large things. with less room to roll the machine around in.
replacing a trigger plugg is easy or is it a advances thing that removed fetures from the machine, since i guess machine can ''sence'' what gun is attacked ?

 

[Jim Davey]

The machine has no idea what torch is on it, they aren't that clever yet!
The best thing to do is give me the exact model number of your machine, I'll get a quote from Binzel here for a complete ready to fit torch and see if I can be competitive.
Personally I'd advise you to avoid torch controls other than a trigger, the adjustment knob on a Binzel PP gun is small and fiddly and easily moved unintentionally as it sits in a position where your gloved hand can hit it, also it's more to go wrong. So I don't use them on my hire fleet but some clients do.
6 and 8 mtrs are options, gas and water cooled, they do a version with a bent swan neck that rotates 360 degrees, that is very handy.
I'm obviously trying to sell you something, no point hiding it, but I use what I sell, we have 12 EWM pulse MIGs, all with standard and Push Pull Binzel watercooled guns and they are excellent value for money, easy to fix, well made and great weld performance. Basically I'm not like the guy who came out and made a bad job of specifying and demoing your Cebora, some people have even accused me of knowing what I'm talking about
So hopefully my advice will come across as genuine.

 

[Macgyver]

The machine has no idea what torch is on it, they aren't that clever yet!
The best thing to do is give me the exact model number of your machine, I'll get a quote from Binzel here for a complete ready to fit torch and see if I can be competitive.
Personally I'd advise you to avoid torch controls other than a trigger, the adjustment knob on a Binzel PP gun is small and fiddly and easily moved unintentionally as it sits in a position where your gloved hand can hit it, also it's more to go wrong. So I don't use them on my hire fleet but some clients do.
6 and 8 mtrs are options, gas and water cooled, they do a version with a bent swan neck that rotates 360 degrees, that is very handy.
I'm obviously trying to sell you something, no point hiding it, but I use what I sell, we have 12 EWM pulse MIGs, all with standard and Push Pull Binzel watercooled guns and they are excellent value for money, easy to fix, well made and great weld performance. Basically I'm not like the guy who came out and made a bad job of specifying and demoing your Cebora, some people have even accused me of knowing what I'm talking about
So hopefully my advice will come across as genuine.

Actaully thay do know what gun is in it, maybe not other guns getts recognize'd (confirmed by cebora )
that is why i cant turn it over 180 amp, same function as with plasma cutter, thay allso know what touch u plugg in to it.
but here is the links to the machine and torch. i also have photo of the cebora welding machine with the 14 pin plugg.

http://www.cebora.it/art_2003_presentazione_prod_uk.html <--- Gun
http://www.cebora.it/art_307_presentazione_prod_uk.html <--- Machine

 

[Macgyver]

i really love the typical torch feeling tho
http://www.mkproducts.com/Prod_CobraSys_mx.htm#partnums
i saw this is possible to buy, and comes with different pins

 

[Jim Davey]

Yes, it's a nice gun, pretty dear though and a bit old by now.
Do you know the voltage of the Cebora guns drive motor? If not I can find this out for myself.

 

[Macgyver]

The machine has no idea what torch is on it, they aren't that clever yet!
The best thing to do is give me the exact model number of your machine, I'll get a quote from Binzel here for a complete ready to fit torch and see if I can be competitive.
Personally I'd advise you to avoid torch controls other than a trigger, the adjustment knob on a Binzel PP gun is small and fiddly and easily moved unintentionally as it sits in a position where your gloved hand can hit it, also it's more to go wrong. So I don't use them on my hire fleet but some clients do.
6 and 8 mtrs are options, gas and water cooled, they do a version with a bent swan neck that rotates 360 degrees, that is very handy.
I'm obviously trying to sell you something, no point hiding it, but I use what I sell, we have 12 EWM pulse MIGs, all with standard and Push Pull Binzel watercooled guns and they are excellent value for money, easy to fix, well made and great weld performance. Basically I'm not like the guy who came out and made a bad job of specifying and demoing your Cebora, some people have even accused me of knowing what I'm talking about
So hopefully my advice will come across as genuine.

this is the message from cebora after i asked what a difference between 2003.39 and 2003 is

we confirm you that it is not possible to adjust the Amperage over 180A on the art. 2003.00 / 2003.39. If you try to use these torches with a current over 180A, they burnt.


The item 2003.00 and 2003.39 have been realized to be used in the body work sector. By means of the19 pins connector the resistor limits the current up to 180A.


If you want to weld with a current over 180A you have to use a traditional torch.


The differences between the art. 2003.00 and 2003.39 are the following ones:

• the item 2003.00 fits a 10 pins connector and an analogic Up/Down circuit
• the item 2003.39 fits a 19 pins connector and a digital Up/Down circuit.

 

[Macgyver]

Yes, it's a nice gun, pretty dear though and a bit old by now.
Do you know the voltage of the Cebora guns drive motor? If not I can find this out for myself.

I have been trying to find that out myself. i resently talked to lincon electric reguarding replugging the magnum aircooled pushpul torch,
and in those the
24 VDC to push pull gun motor = 700 ipm wire feed speed is installed.
But on the machine i have, it says u can manually adjust the whirefeed speed of the gun in the machines settings. so maybe that would help me with a NOT origianl gun.
in the cebora 2740 is the setting to adjust the whirefeed speel in the GUN from -9.9 - + 9.9. maybe that would help me readjust a ''new push pull gun '' to the machine. but straight number might not hit the correct speed, and wheel in the gun might be eather spinning or going to fast. but that would be a issue to a more confirmative day when i know if we can return the machine or not.

 

[Jim Davey]

Hi, I contacted Binzel and I'm told a push-pull gun can be fitted, can you take a picture of the water cooler connections and the control plug for the gun please?

Best regards

Jim

 

[Macgyver]

Hi, I contacted Binzel and I'm told a push-pull gun can be fitted, can you take a picture of the water cooler connections and the control plug for the gun please?

Best regards

Jim

but will there be difference in wire feeding in the gun compaired with the machine if i use a different gun ?

and we dont want watercooled, or we dont need it so u dont have to worrie about that.

 

[Jim Davey]

Hi, I have the info needed for fitting the Binzel gun to your Cebora unit, except for the motor voltage, if you could have a look at the motor itself and see if you can see any markings etc that would be most helpful.

 

[Macgyver]

Hi, I have the info needed for fitting the Binzel gun to your Cebora unit, except for the motor voltage, if you could have a look at the motor itself and see if you can see any markings etc that would be most helpful.

i will do that tomorrow. its pretty covered in plastic and crap,
also sendt direct message to cebora, and to my local distributor. but for now i havent gotten anny information,