looking into tig but a few questions

[imprez55]

First off, hello everyone and if there is something wrong with my reasoning or anything please do say so. I am still a little lost so there are not many questions, but any helpful insight or anything beneficial said would be greatly appreciated. Also, sorry for the need for plugs and voltages that work in the states.

I have been reading these forums a lot (btw, great job with them. The best resource for welding that i have come across) and have finally pushed myself to tig. I have never welded before but i think it would be easier to go from tig to anything else (except maby o/a) than the reverse. I would like some help picking a welder and making sure i can hone the skills necessary.

First question, how have most of you learned to weld; night classes, friend, job? Once I start I need to know that I am doing it right, so how have all of you done it?

Next question you will need a little more background but here it is, which would be better, the newer inverter technology, or the old transformer tech? I am looking for a welder that I can use the rest of my life (in college now) but I will be moving a few times probably. I do not know how much access I will have to a 220v so the option of a 110 plug helps the versatility aspect. The inverter type seems like a fit, but is it developed to be rugged enough to withstand years and years of abuse?

Once that is narrowed down I would like some recommendations of welders for the heck of it. I know Miller and Lincoln are good brands but not much else. There are probably companies that are better with certain types and through certain ratings so any direction would be helpful. Please keep in mind I do live in the us, so if you don't know of anything available here thats ok.

Thank you in advance for any responses. If you need more info, just ask.

edit: I forgot to say that I already solder quite a bit with electronics and surface mount components. I thought that might be a useful background before welding. It also gives me a lot of experience with electronics so I might be able to fix the inverter types if absolutely necessary, but I would prefer it to just work.

 

[shenion]

I'm self taught. Used a lot of info from here, Miller's and Lincoln's sites. There are no classes I could find here outside a 2-year degree. There are some DVD's out also.

110v inverter would probably top out at about 150A (20A circuit). Some can do both 110/220.

Any decent welder will probably want 220V. If your breaker panel is in the garage, adding a 220V is easy.

If you want to do aluminum, then you will need and AC/DC TIG. For steels, you can get DC-only.

A decent DC-only TIG starts at about $1k. AC/DC units are usually twice that. Miller and Lincoln do seem to be the only players. The only other ones are the cheap Chinese TIGs. Those seem to be hit and miss.

If you have the $$$ to drop on a nice TIG setup, then go with a local supplier that has good service. My gas supplier has Miller and Lincoln but thy seem to push the Millers.

If dropping a ton of money on a nice TIG setup is out of your budget, then look at a used one. Depending where you are you can find lots on ebay. Here in GA, I had a minimal selection as most seem to be on the west coast of northeast. Saw some great deals, but shipping was a killer.

You could look on ebay/criags list locally and get a bargain on a transformer machine (have seen some inverters but most were broken or "as is".) You can learn on it and probably resell it for the same price while you decide on a good machine.

I found my Airco beast on ebay (same as the Miller 330A/B/P and similar to the Dialarc's.) Cost almost nothing asn was local. It works fine for me. I did wish for a fancier one when doing thin aluminum, a square-wave, variable frequiency unit would have helped keep the arc focused.

Another option is to take a chance on a Chinese TIG. Find seller that guarantees them in the US (don't want to have to ship to china for service.)

Welcome to the forums

BTW, wher in the US are you?

 

[imprez55]

I am in Ohio, pretty close to Cleveland.

I don't like the idea of a Chinese inverter, but i do like the idea of having an inverter if it has 110 and 220 plugs. The option to use a 110 if there is nothing else around sounds very good to me, even though the majority of the use will be on a 220. I will look at the prices and availability of inverter vs transformer around here and try to use that. Right now inverters are looking pretty good unless I can find a steal on an old working transformer.

I would prefer the AC/DC setup just so I can do alum if I want/need to.

I would like some more opinions on whether I should try for the inverter or not. I am leaning that way but I just want to make sure its the right path.

 

[weldequip]

Lincoln or Miller would give you the best true value, ie.longevity
Inverters will give you more advanced features, better portability & take up less room; Transformer based sets will give you the best long term reliability + be more serviceable & be a more convenient package, with the gas cylinder sitting on the back for wheeling altogether around the workshop (if you have the room).
weldequip

 

[imprez55]

Well for most of the day I have been looking at welders. There is not too much going on in the markets with second hand units around here, especially transformers. The Miller dynasty 200 dx looks to be exactly what I am looking for, except for the price. So unfortunately it looks like I might have to skimp out on the 100 and 220 plugs on the same machine.

I am now looking at the Miller Syncrowave 200 and Lincoln Precision TIG 225. Does anyone have any experience with these?

Also, how are the pre-made starter kits from Miller and Lincoln with the torch, foot pedal ect.? It looks to be a pretty easy route as far as accessories go. What should I be looking for if these are not good?

 

[644 carlos]

Well for most of the day I have been looking at welders. There is not too much going on in the markets with second hand units around here, especially transformers. The Miller dynasty 200 dx looks to be exactly what I am looking for, except for the price. So unfortunately it looks like I might have to skimp out on the 100 and 220 plugs on the same machine.

I am now looking at the Miller Syncrowave 200 and Lincoln Precision TIG 225. Does anyone have any experience with these?

Also, how are the pre-made starter kits from Miller and Lincoln with the torch, foot pedal ect.? It looks to be a pretty easy route as far as accessories go. What should I be looking for if these are not good?

have used both in my imop the lincoln was easyer to use with a better strike and a finer adjustment but to be honest both will do for what you want does the lincoln have a water cooler as they r known for cracking whitch is big money to repair

 

[imprez55]

I did not want to start a whole new thread, so here is yet another question. What kind of helmet should I be looking at to go the full range of the welders I was looking at (two posts above). I assume auto darkening so I can use the full range, but does it need a sensitivity adjustment? Anybody with tig specific recommendations?

 

[shenion]

I have two cheap auto helmets. They are fine for TIG. Both have a high/low sensitivity switch and a #9-13 shade. They can be triggered with an angle grinder. Have done 20 GA steel and they triggered fine. Both were under $50.

It tried taping over the sensor and using my plasma cutter (to use the UV/IR protection and #4 shade.) It still triggers .

They have a response time rated at 1/25,000th a second. That is important; any slower and you get an equivalent of a camera flash at the start of each weld. There is a lot of junk that has 1/1000 or slower. In fact Lincoln Electric makes one that has a response of 1/400 sec that is sold at HomerD. For half the price you can get one that is 60x faster. I consider 1/10,000 sec response a minimum.

Most inexpensive helmets are not rated for overhead welding (mine aren't). That is something to consider. Mine do have an ANSI spec.

If you plan on doing very low current TIG (<20A) then there are special TIG helmets that can respond to the low light.

One of my helmets is an ebay special. The other is from Harbor Freight. HF sells lots of junk, the helmets seem to be an exception.

Miller has some decent ones (Pro-Hobby line) in the $150 range.

 

[imprez55]

Thanks a lot for the responses so far, they have been quick and precise.

Hopefully you guys can help me again with another two questions. First; Miller says to ground every metal object within 50 ft when using hf. That is completely unreasonable for a (soon to be) backyard welder like me. Does this include even hf start, or is the welder always running in hf even after the start. (If need be the welders in post #5 are the specific ones in question but I figure its mostly universal)

Question number 2, what kind of heat does the torch dissipate. I have experience building watercooling loops for computers and other electronics so I know the steps. I found the following quote by weldequip (just for anybody else's interest) so I already have that down, but I just need to make sure the radiator can dissipate that much heat out of the loop.

Maximum 10LPM, typically 2-3LPM @ 2-3 bar pressure.
Water cooling is widely used in industry on MIG & TIG, but it's a cut-throat game so do your sums right!
weldequip

 

[fingers99]

Coming from totally the other end of the market (cheapo DC TIG, maybe $300), but I use HF start and never ground anything but the machine itself (through 3 pin plug) and the workpeice. My machine does have a supplementary earth lug, but................

I'd not worry overmuch about the water cooling (or even a watercooled torch) unless you're using above 120amps for an extended period.

Those machines are pretty much the industry standard (which is why, sob, they're so damn expensive). They won't do the welding for you, but should pretty much work very well indeed out of the crate once you've put the settings in.

 

[shenion]

I have 150A and 200A air-cooled torches (WP-17 and WP-26). Fine for DIY use. A production environment that runs continuous would warrant a water-cooled torch.

I use 10LPM/20CFH.

The starter packages look good; will make it easier. Most are Weldcraft rebadged torches (and have similar model numbers.) You can usually get them cheaper elsewhere. My WP-17 torch, assortment of tungstens, collets, shrouds etc cost about $120. A reg was less than $50.