Kemppi MLS2300 v Fronius MW2200

[Chris Stevens]

At the moment I have a Kemppi MLS2300 which is watercooled, and has a smaller WP20 type torch fitted, rather than the rather cumbersome OE Kemppi one. Very pleased with it and it welds beautifully, and if you have print copy of manual is easy to set up after a careful read.

Been offered a very low hours Fronius (almost looks new) MW2200, for a good price, and wonder is anyone out there has owned both of these machines, and if so what are your feelings on them?

Had a bit of difficulty with Kemppi customer services at first (trying to get parts list for a MIG set), but finally got that sorted, and they couldnt have been more helpful. Not dealt with Fronius before, but branch of TPS is local, and they can probably help with anything Fronius.

On paper the Fronius can do everything the MLS can do with an ACX control panel (mine has ACS), but isnt watercooled, and seems far more complicated to set up. Looks better build quality then Kemppi though, although dread to think what a cooler would cost.

Be very interested to hear from anyone who has owned both, and whether or not it would be worth going for MW2200 and keeping it air cooled while saving for cooler?

 

[Richard.]

While I haven't owned both I have had arc time with both and like yourself owned the magicwave before the 2200. It's difficult because on paper as you say they are pretty comparable. If your Kemppi was the acx panel I'd say keep the Kemppi simply as you've got a cooler and the Fronius doesn't . Now between the two welding wise I think the fronius has the edge as the arc is super quiet which is a lovely thing. But I cannot say it's any better at putting down a weld. The problem is if you were to make that fronius watercooled it would not be so cheap. I recently got some direct prices and the cooler alone with substantial discount was £850. You could always make a cooler or order one from me. It's difficult because the Kemppi you have and the fronius you like are at the moment as good as each other in the format that they are in. If it was like for like packages ie both water cooled. I'd have the magicwave.

 

[wheresmejumper]

Theyre so near each other tig wise its hard to recommend changing.as richard says the fronius will edge it,but no cooler.plus 10 amps too.
stick welding is where the gap in performance is more obvious,but probably not noticeable to much extent by most people.but if you stove.i.e.6010 downhill,and to a lesser extent open root cellulose uphill,the fronius is the daddy.
If you can afford to buy the fronius and not sell the kemppi,then you have nothing to lose.id try it.either one will not lose value any time soon
but if money is tight,i would stick with what you have

 

[Richard.]

I did wonder about the mma performance been more pushed toward the MW. I would guess with rutiles and most basics you wouldn't notice much but as you say stoving down a V root pipe/plate the fronius would stand taller.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Thanks. I think I have located a cooler for reasonable money, but have to add a torch to that obviously. I was very interested if there was any noticeable difference in performance, but your replies seem to suggest not really anything to lose sleep over. Be nice to have Kemppi and MW, but cant afford both.

In the long term how do the Kemppi control panels hold up? Not sure I like the idea of £700 for a replacement if a fault develops, as Kemppi advise they cannot be repaired? Wonder if the Fronius would be more reliable long term, and whether control panel faults occur very often on MLS? If they are generally reliable I think I will keep the Kemppi.

 

[Richard.]

When Kemppis are supplied new if you chose the fancy acx panel you get both the acx and acs panel with the machine. This is the reason you see a lot of the acs panels on eBay going cheap and unused so if for any reason yours fails you'll have no issue getting another. Very rarely will you find the acx ones going though as people tend to keep them. So what's the difference? Well IMO nothing worth crying about. The acx has pulse this is about the only useful feature the acs doesn't have and given how rarely I use pulse I wouldn't personally be bothered. The rest of the features ie micro tack, memory's , synergic pulse etc are nothing more than little gimmicks that I personally don't need to use. The fronius is probably a Slightly better machine if I'm honest. For me the whisper quiet and stable ac arc is Amazing and my 2000 was the same. So much more quieter than the mls. But that said the mls is very nice on ac just noisy when compared. I would work out just how much you'll get for the mls and how much it's going to cost to get the fronius to the same spec. Fronius torches, coolers and pedals are waaaaaaay more costly than the other brands about. You might find its not worth the cost as you have a very nice unit already. I've not heard of many failures on either but I have heard the mls is a nightmare to work on and that could increase costs if you do get a failure.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Thanks Richard. I couldnt see any real reason for having ACX panel, and as you say most of its functions seem more gimmicky rather than serving a useful purpose. Cooler and torch for MW is probably going to cost me £500, and starting to get the feeling that its simply not worth spending that sort of money. Be nice to have both MLS and MW, as have 2 workshops with TIG sets in at moment, but the MW is an awful lot more money than the £300 L Tec transformer I have in one workshop at the moment, which still welds pretty well, but is awfully loud.

 

[Richard.]

£500 for a fronius cooler and torch. That is very very cheap. The other thing is should you want to buy a pedal for your welder. The Kemppi R11F is around £300-£350 give or take. The fronius pedal is nearly £580. Direct. (I had a quote on that too) I don't know what the new fronius pedals are like but the older TR's were nice but the R11F is probably the best foot control ive ever used. So responsive and a lot more stable been low and wide. and pretty well priced given its an OEM unit.
There is no mistaking that fronius is a little cut above the rest but it's a little cut for a whole lot more money. I'd still have one mind if I could justify it.

 

[Shox Dr]

Shortly after buying mine, the rotary control knob [on panel] became faulty causing the amps to jump about when adjusting. Called Kemppi they knew what the [common]fault was, as soon as I told them what colour the data ribbon was. Cost me 60quid to get it replaced, and the part was only a fiver
Karma when it got lost in the return post, had to send me a ACX Panel. They weren't happy about, but what could they do.


My pedal was £230ish

 

[Richard.]

Shortly after buying mine, the rotary control knob [on panel] became faulty causing the amps to jump about when adjusting. Called Kemppi they knew what the [common]fault was, as soon as I told them what colour the data ribbon was. Cost me 60quid to get it replaced, and the part was only a fiver
Karma when it got lost in the return post, had to send me a ACX Panel. They weren't happy about, but what could they do.


My pedal was £230ish

Ah that answers my Q on the other thread. I wondered when or how you got the panel. (Nice touch)
You done well with that pedal price too as I've heard 300 plus paid frequently for them.

 

[Chris Stevens]

£500 for a fronius cooler and torch. That is very very cheap. The other thing is should you want to buy a pedal for your welder. The Kemppi R11F is around £300-£350 give or take. The fronius pedal is nearly £580. Direct. (I had a quote on that too) I don't know what the new fronius pedals are like but the older TR's were nice but the R11F is probably the best foot control ive ever used. So responsive and a lot more stable been low and wide. and pretty well priced given its an OEM unit.
There is no mistaking that fronius is a little cut above the rest but it's a little cut for a whole lot more money. I'd still have one mind if I could justify it.

I would have been happy with a generic torch with fittings to suit MW2200, the set I have been offered comes complete with OE Fronius torch and pedal, but didnt like the idea of cost of Fronius torch parts particularly.

 

[Richard.]

Well then it's a no brainer if the torch and pedal are included. Build yourself a cheap cooler and there you have it a mw2200 job package.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Well then it's a no brainer if the torch and pedal are included. Build yourself a cheap cooler and there you have it a mw2200 job package.

Can probably get an OE cooler for a lot lot less than the £1100 new price. There is also a Fronius Synergic 2700 Mig for sale, but not sure thats of much use to me as my Kempomatt does all I want regards MIG. Both sets are aircooled complete and ready to weld with the addition of gas and filler, and look to have low hours (not checked hours yet though). Good to very good cosmetically, and dont seem to have been used for production work. Wonder what value you would put on these sets? Seller wanted too much money for them, when I first looked at them several weeks ago, but has been unable to sell either, so has got back to me.

 

[Richard.]

Cooler quote I recieved was £850. 1100 could be list price.

 

[Chris Stevens]

£1100 is list price which I was given couple of weeks ago.

 

[HughF]

Chris, there is another fronius 270a synergic mig on the bay at the moment if you were looking for one. Advertised as a magicwave though by the seller.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Ok thanks..............not interested in MIG though, and dont think I can warrant spending £500 or more to upgrade MW to pretty much the same as I have already with my MLS.

 

[Richard.]

Ok thanks..............not interested in MIG though, and dont think I can warrant spending £500 or more to upgrade MW to pretty much the same as I have already with my MLS.

Does your mls have the pedal.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Does your mls have the pedal.

Not OE, its an SMP one but seems to work fine. Will try OE at some time though, as I get the feeling it might well be better. Have to see if I can borrow one for a few days to compare.

 

[Richard.]

They are very good. It surprised me at how responsive they are. I like that in a pedal but some people don't. Marmite.
Your not a million miles from me. If your ever passing through you'd be welcome to give it a try.