Windows 10 anyone?

[ronan]

Designspark seems not to have been updated to 10 specs, when you open it you get a little message saying you are operating on an unsupported os.

 

[mike os]

Looks like a few manual edits got it sorted. ... why it needed to mess with a separate disk I just don't know

Will try again but unplug disks this time

 

[Ed.]

I upgraded one of my bootup disks to Win 10 a couple of weeks ago just to have a look at it and have now removed it and gone back to Win 8.1 with the Classic Shell program, (Classic Shell makes 8.1 look like the Win 7 setup instead of the "Metro look"). To be honest, for myself I see very little benefit going to Win 10 apart from the support that Microsoft will throw behind it as they will try to elliminate the other OS's support in due time, but apart from that, no other benefit that I noticed. I just really don't like the the appearance of it. I generally run Server 2012 R2 as a desktop OS ( also with Classic Shell) and run the Win 8.1's in Virtual Machines.

Server OS's have a long support life so not worried about MS ditching support for them any time soon, and if MS ditches 8.1 support I think I will just run Ubuntu linux desktop. (already running it in a VM just to familiarise myself with it) I got about 10 years out of Server 2003 but then the updates got out of hand and so switched over to 2012 R2 when I got my new PC last year.

My biggest gripe with the Win 10 is the total removal of privacy that has been foisted on everyone using it on a global scale, some of which you can disable however they are certain parts that you can not. We all read the User agreement when we install a new OS don't we? I didn't....and apparently as part of the User agreement,(which you have to consent too otherwise it won't install) and I found out a couple of days ago, you gave permission to allow MS to scan your PC and its drives for illegal software and or devices and give MS permission to disable them and report to appropriate authourities if neccessary if it finds any thing it deems unsavoury, so obviously they have implemmented the OS to be able to access your PC when they want to, whether you like it or not.

Not to mention recording your voice, scanning your emails, voice chats over skype, personal pictures, all your email contacts and be able to sell off this data to third parties if they choose to do so, so that they can target advertising to you. Talk about "Big Brother is watching"! and that was the final nail for me in Win 10's coffin. , between Google and the Goverments Data retention laws and now MS, what ever hope of privacy you had just flew out your windows (pun intended).

Now I don't know about you guys but I operate an OS to run my PC and not to let some Corporation access, datamine and scrutenize all of my personal life and info so they can make more profit by selling it to the highest bidder and giving up my privacy at the same time! Thanks but no thanks... not for me! If you are after a free OS then have a look at Ubuntu linux, it may not be as "pretty" as a Windows OS but it is much more reliable and it is a very competant and reliable OS!

Just my long 2 cents worth! I am off my soap box now and am off now to take my med's and put on a tin hat!!!!

Cheers.

 

[Paul99]

I upgraded one of my bootup disks to Win 10 a couple of weeks ago just to have a look at it and have now removed it and gone back to Win 8.1 with the Classic Shell program, (Classic Shell makes 8.1 look like the Win 7 setup instead of the "Metro look"). To be honest, for myself I see very little benefit going to Win 10 apart from the support that Microsoft will throw behind it as they will try to elliminate the other OS's support in due time, but apart from that, no other benefit that I noticed. I just really don't like the the appearance of it. I generally run Server 2012 R2 as a desktop OS ( also with Classic Shell) and run the Win 8.1's in Virtual Machines.

Server OS's have a long support life so not worried about MS ditching support for them any time soon, and if MS ditches 8.1 support I think I will just run Ubuntu linux desktop. (already running it in a VM just to familiarise myself with it) I got about 10 years out of Server 2003 but then the updates got out of hand and so switched over to 2012 R2 when I got my new PC last year.

My biggest gripe with the Win 10 is the total removal of privacy that has been foisted on everyone using it on a global scale, some of which you can disable however they are certain parts that you can not. We all read the User agreement when we install a new OS don't we? I didn't....and apparently as part of the User agreement,(which you have to consent too otherwise it won't install) and I found out a couple of days ago, you gave permission to allow MS to scan your PC and its drives for illegal software and or devices and give MS permission to disable them and report to appropriate authourities if neccessary if it finds any thing it deems unsavoury, so obviously they have implemmented the OS to be able to access your PC when they want to, whether you like it or not.

Not to mention recording your voice, scanning your emails, voice chats over skype, personal pictures, all your email contacts and be able to sell off this data to third parties if they choose to do so, so that they can target advertising to you. Talk about "Big Brother is watching"! and that was the final nail for me in Win 10's coffin. , between Google and the Goverments Data retention laws and now MS, what ever hope of privacy you had just flew out your windows (pun intended).

Now I don't know about you guys but I operate an OS to run my PC and not to let some Corporation access, datamine and scrutenize all of my personal life and info so they can make more profit by selling it to the highest bidder and giving up my privacy at the same time! Thanks but no thanks... not for me! If you are after a free OS then have a look at Ubuntu linux, it may not be as "pretty" as a Windows OS but it is much more reliable and it is a very competant and reliable OS!

Just my long 2 cents worth! I am off my soap box now and am off now to take my med's and put on a tin hat!!!!

Cheers.

I'm just waiting for you to be branded a conspiracy theorist for daring to point it out . For what it's worth I've refused to update any PCs beyond Win 7 and have urged as many people as possible asking for it to try Linux Mint (Ubuntu based but a bit more windows like) - most of those that do give it a fair go never look back.

 

[Ed.]

Thanks Paul99, Well somebody had to go first!! , seriously though, the older I get the more I realise it's not a conspiricy theory but a fact, I could have also mentioned Echelon seeing as we have one of their listening sites here and someone also mentioned that they may be bring in Stingray devices over to Oz. It really is getting to the stage where we are all under constant survellence, anybody else also note how many survellence cameras are out there, in the streets, shops, shopping centres! anyway I digress, the meds aren't working yet, getting back to the story, I haven't tried Linux Mint, so will have to download it and have a look at it next week and see how it compares to Ubuntu. Meanwhile I will just wait for the front door to be broken down!

 

[Kayos]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

Quite a few people on here need to use windows, I use Photoshop and Lightroom daily, and the GNU/Linux alternatives do not even remotely compare, gimp is terrible; it doesn't handle raw files correctly, struggles with sRGB etc etc and there just isn't an equivalent to Lightroom.

Plus all the people the use CAD software, it will upgrade to Win 10 versions, not my area but I don't see any pros raving about running it on Linux

I used to run and advocate Linux, indeed my NAS runs a version of BSD, but my Desktop is 10, quite happily. I don't care if they scan my drive for dodgy software, because they wont find any; or pirated films, songs, TV programmes
Plus look at the huge Debian cock up a few years back, the old stable, solid, faithful distro (that Ubuntu and its many many derivatives are based on) with a massive security flaw, that is still not properly patched.

If you want Linux thats fine, but dont start stating windows 10 is useless because it invades my privacy, if it was as bad as was stated previously then my HW firewall logs would be full, and they're not, in fact when I turned all the cortana and location stuff off the only outbound connections were ones I had made......

 

[Paul99]

I've said it before and I'll say it again

Quite a few people on here need to use windows, I use Photoshop and Lightroom daily, and the GNU/Linux alternatives do not even remotely compare, gimp is terrible; it doesn't handle raw files correctly, struggles with sRGB etc etc and there just isn't an equivalent to Lightroom.

Plus all the people the use CAD software, it will upgrade to Win 10 versions, not my area but I don't see any pros raving about running it on Linux

I used to run and advocate Linux, indeed my NAS runs a version of BSD, but my Desktop is 10, quite happily. I don't care if they scan my drive for dodgy software, because they wont find any; or pirated films, songs, TV programmes
Plus look at the huge Debian cock up a few years back, the old stable, solid, faithful distro (that Ubuntu and its many many derivatives are based on) with a massive security flaw, that is still not properly patched.

If you want Linux thats fine, but dont start stating windows 10 is useless because it invades my privacy, if it was as bad as was stated previously then my HW firewall logs would be full, and they're not, in fact when I turned all the cortana and location stuff off the only outbound connections were ones I had made......

I think you might have misunderstood - no one was stating that windows 10 was useless because it invades your privacy merely that it invades your privacy in addition of it being useless . Trying to compare freeware like Gimp to a eye wateringly expensive program like PS is unfair. GIMP will do 95% of what PS will do for 0% of the cost and if PS works with WINE (I don't know I've never tried) then that's a non argument anyway.

On a serious note use whatever works for you all operating systems have their pros and cons - the vast majority will never realise though that windows may likely be the worst suited OS available to them until they try others...

 

[Kayos]

I think you might have misunderstood - no one was stating that windows 10 was useless because it invades your privacy merely that it invades your privacy in addition of it being useless . Trying to compare freeware like Gimp to a eye wateringly expensive program like PS is unfair. GIMP will do 95% of what PS will do for 0% of the cost and if PS works with WINE (I don't know I've never tried) then that's a non argument anyway.

On a serious note use whatever works for you all operating systems have their pros and cons - the vast majority will never realise though that windows may likely be the worst suited OS available to them until they try others...

PS and Lightroom cost me £8 a month, I'd call that cheap (and I'm a Yorkshireman!) gimp may do 95% of what PS does, but the 5% are important, like importing raw files properly.

We could go back and forth all night, but if you think Linux is totally secure and no one can snoop then you may need to re-evaluate what your running, Ubuntu etc dumb it down to an almost pointless level and with that come security risks. The same with closed source binaries (graphics card drivers, commercial software etc) which are now becoming popular, these are a huge security risk IMO

 

[Paul99]

PS and Lightroom cost me £8 a month, I'd call that cheap (and I'm a Yorkshireman!) gimp may do 95% of what PS does, but the 5% are important, like importing raw files properly.

We could go back and forth all night, but if you think Linux is totally secure and no one can snoop then you may need to re-evaluate what your running, Ubuntu etc dumb it down to an almost pointless level and with that come security risks. The same with closed source binaries (graphics card drivers, commercial software etc) which are now becoming popular, these are a huge security risk IMO

As I said you use what works for you. You obviously must have very specific needs that requires you use Windows and you're obviously happy agreeing to hand over to MS any data they deem valuable for that privilege - good for you. Don't assume though that the vast majority of people will have such specific needs and could quite easily get by using alternative free software and not have to agree to sign over their data as means of payment.

I'm sorry to disappoint you but it's not something that will go back and forth all night as this is my last post on the topic - it's not worth my time or even appropriate for a welding forum anyway - both sides of the argument are available for all to see all over the internet and if the last few posts encourages anyone to do some further reading before opting for the latest default OS then job done. I'll leave you to carry on in my absence.

 

[malcolm]

I worry that Windows 10 is free. Maybe Microsoft have gone all philanthropic, or possibly they have figured a different way to make money out of us but haven't told us what it is yet. The privacy side of Windows 10 concerns me even if you can adjust it on install.

(I don't worry that many Linux operating systems are free - there really is philanthropy and a vision of how things ought to be in there.)

 

[the snooper]

im thinking of cloning my c drive with the windows 10 install on it and reverting back to 7 until we find out exactly what the score is with 10

 

[skotl]

First off, on the privacy front, please don't be under any illusions that Microsoft care more, or treat differently, the consumer or home user - they don't.
They care about the corporate users, as that's where the money is.

Historically Microsoft made money from the server licences (Windows Server, SQL Server, IIS, Sharepoint, etc) but the stated aim now is to make money from Azure (their cloud offerings), again from corporate users.

I am responsible for IT strategy in my business and me and my team help drive IT strategy in corporate organisations worldwide. And I can genuinely assure you that, of all the myriad complexities we worry about, "Microsoft are spying on you" does not even figure. Not at all. Zero. Nada. And if Microsoft ever were stupid enough to resell users' information or infringe users' rights then their core corporate business would walk away. Businesses have information security, data protection and compliance teams that do nothing but assess the potential threat to personal and corporate data.

I understand anyone's right to make a choice of which software they run, but I utterly refute "Microsoft are spying on me" as either a valid complaint or a reason not to use Microsoft software. FWIW, ditto for Ubuntu, Redhat, Oracle, Apple and any other organisation that has a corporate reputation to protect.


Apologies - that turned into quite a rant and I don't want to suggest for a minute that Malcolm cited privacy concerns (he hasn't, that I noted) but he did raise an interesting question;

I worry that Windows 10 is free. Maybe Microsoft have gone all philanthropic, or possibly they have figured a different way to make money out of us but haven't told us what it is yet. The privacy side of Windows 10 concerns me even if you can adjust it on install.

(I don't worry that many Linux operating systems are free - there really is philanthropy and a vision of how things ought to be in there.)

It is philanthropy of a type - Microsoft want to ensure that the vast majority of the world's desktops run Windows. And they don't want that to be Windows XP, Vista or even Windows 7. They know Windows 8 was a disaster and they are offering a (in my opinion) valuable incentive to get people off of Windows 7 and Windows 8 and up to Windows 10; a genuine free offer.

Why? So that they can say (and I'm making these figures up) "95% of desktops run Windows. 75% of these are running the latest version".

Why is that important? Because these consumers then go to work and (as alluded to in other posts) complain that their corporate machine is running Windows XP or Windows 7 or Ubuntu, and demand Windows 10. The buzzwords in the IT Service Management world now are around consumerisation, prosumers, and user choice. In other words, the user can pay for what the IT department offers them, or they can spend their own budget and spend money on what they want.


Phew - almost over, and thanks to those who stuck with me... In a nuthshell; it is a genuine offer, it is generally a better operating system, Microsoft want as many users as possible on Windows 10 and giving it away is a means to that end. And they're not spying on you - the numbers are important to them, not you individually (harsh but true).

If you don't want Windows 10 then don't take it - I'm not worried about genuine choice, but I am keen to dispel any rumours and myths on this topic.

 

[the snooper]

what we also have to take into account is that win 10 is only free for so long after that people will have to pay I would imagine

 

[skotl]

Indeed. A year from release (which was a couple of weeks ago).

 

[Ed.]

I may have missed it but I still can't see any real benefits that win 10 has over 8.1 for the majority of people, perhaps someone here who has used it longer than I can let me know? Apart from the user interface and that can be easily changed for free, MS hasn't gone philanphropic as from what I have read they have said that they will datamine to target the user with user specific adverts and also sell off the data to third parties.

What I am waiting for is the backlash to hit from businesses and government, who will object to having their drives scanned from a security and privacy point of view. Imagine just as an example if the hospitals had all their patient records scanned, now if MS have the abilty to get into your system because it is designed to let them, it will only be a matter of time before others will also work out how do that do with different consequences, businesses have their contracts, pricing structures, customers credit card details and personal info on records ect., or on a more personal level it may also allow someone to scan your PC to find your banking details or steal your identity, MS seem to have now built in a "backdoor" or a method to access your PC.

Whilst all OS's have some sort of glich/program bug that has security issues, those are patched pretty quickly, this is the first time that I have heard of one actually being built in and also activated by default for the sole purpose of datamining and compliance. Anyway if nothing else these sort of threads may get people to think about their security on their PC's which is always a good thing. When I was in tech support I would frequently get called out to work on a PC only to find that the password is stuck to the desk on a post it note or a bit of paper, I kid you not. Government and education departments were the worst offenders, this way a person doesn't even have to physically go to someones PC.

For a certain percentage of people or businesses, because of the apps they use, they will have to continue to rely on running Windows, that doesn't mean they have to use the latest OS, a local hospital I know still uses Win 7 today, for the majority of others there are alternatives. Most windows users will have MS word running on their PC, however how many of them them will actually use that program to it's full capabilities, most of them will only use about 5% of its functions. So for the majority of window users, and that is what we are talking about here, there are other alternatives without having your privacy compromised.

 

[normspanners]

I quite understand your concerns re this, and as you have said MS have not had the best track record of hack free systems !!
I also agree with Skotl that MS white hatters cant be bothered with us little ant eggs they want the ostrich eggs full of goodness (read Money)
it is the 'other black hatters', that MIGHT be the problem in the future.

 

[the snooper]

Anyone else getting random "stalls" working away happily then everything goes on a sudden go slow for several seconds / minutes as if its bogging down for some reason...I get a feeling something isn't working quite right somewhere...(hence why I usually fresh install rather than upgrade OSs...)

apparently windows 10 is using p2p to deliver updates and as far as I know to send windows 10 to other users and therefore using peoples bandwidth which could account for your problem, I'm sure it will come up if you google it

 

[the snooper]

just incase anyone wants to stop win 10 sharing updates with people click on the following options.

settings, windows update, advanced options, choose how updates are delivered, then just turn it off

 

[the snooper]

its like explorer is lagging...click an icon and it sits and sits and sits and then everything comes up at once....

have you tried using task manager to see if anything is hogging your memory or processor

 

[Kayos]

Anyone else getting random "stalls" working away happily then everything goes on a sudden go slow for several seconds / minutes as if its bogging down for some reason...I get a feeling something isn't working quite right somewhere...(hence why I usually fresh install rather than upgrade OSs...)

I know 10 from 7 is an upgrade but I'm sure it pretty much reinstalls from scratch, however I had nothing other than 7 installed when I upgraded. I did delete 20gb of "old windows" once the full version was installed.

While moving 200ish gb last night it did stall when the screensaver started, however that could be the raid card drivers and/or the fact I'm still getting preview updates