Asbestos - or is it?

[Kent]

Any form of cancer is terrible, just had a death in the family, young lady 30 years old, dead within four weeks of diagnosis

that's terrible, I cant see when we can spend so much money on other things within the G8 nations we still need charity to fund research etc. I think if you have never been touched by it within you circle of close friends and family you are extremely lucky. we are making some big moves now at least

 

[Wallace]

My dad had mesothelomia, but he died of multiple myeloma (not an asbestos-related cancer) before it affected his health. I don't know which would be the worse way to go because the myeloma caused him terrible suffering.

Sorry to hear that Pete, was his Myeloma a late diagnosis? The treatments have improved quite dramatically in recent years and work well if caught early.

 

[Parm]

When I worked for a big construction company we all went in on a 1 day asbo training course - the fella taking the course explained all the risks etc including how it should be treated, double bagged etc - he then proceeded to pass round samples for everyone to look at.... The samples were in thin worn out freezer bags....

The MD at the time emptied the room and sent him on his way! I believe it cost the fella a few quid to have the room professionally cleaned!

Awesome, I run those training course too but we stopped taking real samples with us years ago, not only is there an issue of passing them around there are all sorts of other restrictions about carrying g in a car and what happens in the event of an emergency etc.

I find that good quality pictures on power point are just as effective

 

[Parm]

that's it, mostly its been removed but a bit remains mainly in hard or impossible to reach spots on old steel pipe. I don't see it poses a big risk to anyone but the guy who first found it working on the place (me). I figured it was more a risk if messed with

Yeah definitely, one way is to get it encapsulated with a proprietary paint, usually quite expensive as you have to employ a licensed contractor. Other option if it's only a ver small amount in a hard to reach area is spray foam. You will of course have to keep records of where and preferably a plan if you ever decide to sell the house

 

[Parm]

My dad had mesothelomia, but he died of multiple myeloma (not an asbestos-related cancer) before it affected his health. I don't know which would be the worse way to go because the myeloma caused him terrible suffering.

I'm sorry to hear that, I wouldn't wish either on my worst enemy

 

[Kent]

Yeah definitely, one way is to get it encapsulated with a proprietary paint, usually quite expensive as you have to employ a licensed contractor. Other option if it's only a ver small amount in a hard to reach area is spray foam. You will of course have to keep records of where and preferably a plan if you ever decide to sell the house

or just keep my gob shut, like the person I bought it off

 

[Parm]

Yes but very naught, did the surveyor not pick it up?

 

[Rocketman]

Also there in no such thing as low grade asbestos, all types of asbestos if inhaled cause terminal disease, the latency period of which is 40 years. You can work as a 20 year old with asbestos for a few months. Then nothing for the rest of you life. It won't be until your in your 60's that there is the first manifestation of any disease for which there is absolutely no cure

Are you sure on this?

So no matter who you are, genetics, amount, size of particle, luck - even inhaling one particle will cause terminal cancer.

Not saying asbestos isn't very very dangerous.

Virtually every older person on this forum would have been exposed to old type brake dust for instance - surely they inhaled some particles?

My mother is now 80 yet my dad worked in a asbestos factory in his 20's while at university and ended up with diagnosis of asbestosis in his 40's so surely when my mother washed his clothes there must have been some particles in the air? By the way he died in his 70's of non related disease even though he had be diagnosed by xrays of having asbestosis in his mid 40's.

 

[Kent]

Yes but very naught, did the surveyor not pick it up?

Surveyors used in house purchases are a waste of time and money! They basically tell the lender the house exists. To be fair I did as much as I could prior but we didn't really know much other than we paid less than or equal the plot was worth (the state of the place was comical actually). Crawling under the floor was a non starter for one thing the electrics were terrifying. Chances of a surveyor crawling under a floor (any floor) on survey? About Nil.
BTW never pay for a "full structure survey" I have a tale or two to tell about some I have seen, they seem to carry a list of reasons why they cannot inspect something. still they wont crawl under floors either

 

[colnerov]

Hi, I used to work in a public building from the 50s that operated 24/7. A few years ago they were working their way round the building refurbing the false ceiling amongst other work, the false ceiling had illuminated signs dotted about. They had contractors in doing the removal and had a dedicated shower trailer with a dirty and clean side. The areas were all hoarded off and sealed with plastic sheet. We were talking to the site foreman about the work and any effect on the operation of the business around the work site. He was saying the contractor couldn't remove ceiling because of the illuminated sign and weren't qualified to disconnect, and he couldn't ask the electricians to disconnect because of the asbestos risk. It was miraculously resolved over the weekend by the elves

Colin

 

[Parm]

Are you sure on this?

So no matter who you are, genetics, amount, size of particle, luck - even inhaling one particle will cause terminal cancer.

Not saying asbestos isn't very very dangerous.

Virtually every older person on this forum would have been exposed to old type brake dust for instance - surely they inhaled some particles?

My mother is now 80 yet my dad worked in a asbestos factory in his 20's while at university and ended up with diagnosis of asbestosis in his 40's so surely when my mother washed his clothes there must have been some particles in the air? By the way he died in his 70's of non related disease even though he had be diagnosed by xrays of having asbestosis in his mid 40's.

Absolutely 100%

It's widely accepted that a single fibre can kill and I will explain how.

Asbestos fibres in the lung are tested as a foreign object and attacked by the body's immune system. The White blood cells or macrophages surround and engulf the fibre in an ate,pt to destroy it. These white blood cells contain very powerful enzymes that are capable of destroying most things. However as the asbestos has a sharp needle like structure, these pierce the white blood cells which release THIER digestive enzymes into the body. As these enzymes are indiscriminate when not contained with the cells they attack surrounding tissues, causing scar tissue to form, much like a scab you get if you cut your finger. As the asbestos fibre cannot be removed the bodies natural defence mechanism continues to bombard it with white blood cells which all suffer the same fate and realse THIER digestive enzymes which continue to attacking surrounding healthy tissue. This continues over a long period of time (latency period of 40 years) until there is so much scar tissue on the inside of the lungs that the surface in which air exchange occurs has been significantly reduced thus making breathing more difficult. This in turn places strain on other systems of the body and eventually results in death.

There is another manifestation of disease where the asbestos fibres affect the epithelial lining of the lungs, essentially tissue detaches from the lung lining making breathing difficult and eventually death.

Obviously the more fibres you are exposed to or the greater the length of time the exposure has occured the quicker and more significant the impact of disease.

Should have said that this is the disease mechanism, but as you point out we are all individual and as no one can predict how one persons body may behave or react against another a generic approach based on the evidence of the disease mechanism has to be used

 

[Parm]

Rocketman, you raise some good points that are all true.

Last year I dealt with a legal case with the same set of circumstances, unfortunately the woman involved was diagnosed with asbestosis

 

[Parm]

The most at risk exposure group these days are carpenters doing refurbishment work and electricians installing computer cabling.

A new batch that is just comming to light are migrant workers, working on demolition sites, often employed by less than scrupulous main contractors !

 

[brightspark]

The most at risk exposure group these days are carpenters doing refurbishment work and electricians installing computer cabling.

!

dunno bout computer cables apart from wiring a complete school up with them and a few office blocks but ive been rewiring houses and shopfitting and wiring up machine rooms in factorys for the last 45 years. and i smoked 60 fags a day for 15 years and i can still out work most folk in a day

 

[Parm]

dunno bout computer cables apart from wiring a complete school up with them and a few office blocks but ive been rewiring houses and shopfitting and wiring up machine rooms in factorys for the last 45 years. and i smoked 60 fags a day for 15 years and i can still out work most folk in a day

They don't make em like they used to

 

[daleyd]

For the last 12 years I've worked in glass factories, steel plants, with industrial oxidisers and dryers and wherever I've worked it's generally been somewhere that's involved heat! The places must have been riddled with the stuff

I'm not sure what nasties have been lurking around in some of the dust I've scrabbled around in, hopefully nothing will raise it's head, but reading through this it certainly makes you think.

 

[brightspark]

trouble is most young folk dont ever bother about the risks to health .im working on a job at the moment there cutting floors up with circular saws digging concrete and chasing walls so im wearing a dust mask and ear defenders as im working near them . i have spare gear and asked if they wanted it to use . nahhh you will be sorry later on in life when its 2 late . i used to laugh at old farts giving advice . im partialy deaf now but have learnt the hard way

 

[Rocketman]

Brightspark didn't hear you can you say that again.

 

[brightspark]

Brightspark didn't hear you can you say that again.

[WHAT DID U SAY

 

[Rocketman]

[WHAT DID U SAY

Oh forget it.