Blowing fuse

[stee1e]

running a murex 120a ac stick with 6013 3.2 off a 13amp plug.

It tripped a fuse on the second bead, I've been thinking about upgrading the electrics in the garage.

What should I check? Do? Will be askin my sparky mate to do the work just need to know the details first.

Thanks

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Did it trip the fuse in the plug or the fuse in the consumer unit?

 

[Bill Edwards]

If it is just the 13a fuse in the welder plug then replace it and try again. Although it should not be a common occurrence welders do tend to push fuses and they can go from time to time. Had the same thing myself just last Friday, second bead and it popped. Replaced it and finished the job thinking very little of it.

 

[brightspark]

it will want a minimum 16 amp supply , a couple of sticky starts and lay one rod on will soon see the fuse off

 

[Kent]

Try this:
Put a 13amp plug on one end of a 12" short length of flex then a 16amp connector on the other and the power lead for the welder. I don't know why but you burn less 13amp fuses doing this. Keep the power under 120amp (which is right for this rod anyhow 100-120 range) yours might pop 13amp at a lower setting than another guys plant but I am fairly confident in you being able to run off 13 with a 3.2mm murex 6013 because I have lots of times (just carry a good supply of fuses).
Yes a better supply of 16 amp or over is better

 

[brightspark]

Try this:
Put a 13amp plug on one end of a 12" short length of flex then a 16amp connector on the other and the power lead for the welder. I don't know why but you burn less 13amp fuses doing this. Keep the power under
Yes a better supply of 16 amp or over is better

i dont think so .the 16 amp plug is just another joint in the cable its not a booster lead

 

[dannyp]

Try this:
Put a 13amp plug on one end of a 12" short length of flex then a 16amp connector on the other and the power lead for the welder. I don't know why but you burn less 13amp fuses doing this. Keep the power under 120amp (which is right for this rod anyhow 100-120 range) yours might pop 13amp at a lower setting than another guys plant but I am fairly confident in you being able to run off 13 with a 3.2mm murex 6013 because I have lots of times (just carry a good supply of fuses).
Yes a better supply of 16 amp or over is better

those are the leads that get the special upgraded 13A fuses arn't they ?

 

[stee1e]

Should have said it tripped the consumer fuse. Haven't checked the 13a plug fuse yet.

If it trips the consumer unit what would the problem be?

 

[steviec_lj]

**Cough** M6 bolt **Cough**

NO! On a serious note, there is no point making a 13a-16a header lead, it will gain you nothing. You still have the 13a fuse in circuit, and I don't know why everyone thinks doing this will cure anything. Upgrade the entire circuit to a 16a or 20a radial, install a pair of 16a sockets, put a 16a connector on your welder.

 

[rich r]

Do you mean it tripped the circuit breaker in the consumer unit? You can't really 'trip' a fuse, as a fuse is a bit or wire that melts. If so - what type of circuit breaker is it? I'll take a guess that it's a 16A type B MCB, as found in most domestic garages.

When you're welding, there's a large current flow when the arc starts that quickly drops once it's sustained. So for 3.2mm rods, you've probably got it set to around 110A welding current which maybe equates to about 12A being drawn from the mains (this obviously is just a generalised figure, it'll depend on your welder). But when it starts, there may be a current of over 25A for a few milliseconds. Type B circuit breakers are designed to break the circuit very quickly in an overcurrent situation. Type C (or even D) allow overcurrent for a longer period, so are more suitable for supplying welders and motors for example.

Ideally, fit an additional 16A type C MCB to your consumer unit, supplying a 16A socket by your bench. Replace the 13A plug on your welder with a 16A blue one. It's handy to keep a 13A plug-16A socket lead around for when you need to take the welder elsewhere and there isn't a 16A supply. But realistically, stick to 2.5mm rods if using a 13A supply to avoid frustration

 

[Kent]

those are the leads that get the special upgraded 13A fuses arn't they ?

have no clue to what you talking about

 

[Kent]

i dont think so .the 16 amp plug is just another joint in the cable its not a booster lead

there is something in it, a spark I know suggested a reason why "something to do with straws and sucking, cable sizes and such. Was given to me by a service engineer at Wilkinson Star and it seriously works

 

[brightspark]

those are the leads that get the special upgraded 13A fuses arn't they ?

is that an allready sorted fuse that has been drilled both ends and a 16 amp fusewire soldered in

 

[BrokenBiker]

im sorry but it is all a load of b*llocks, if you have a 13 amp fuse you have a 13amp fuse. putting a 16amp plug and socket in between the 13amp fuse and the welder is just creating a longer lead and one more connection to get hot. as bright spark has said its not a booster cable, or a magical way of getting more amps down a cable by tricking it into thinking it has a higher fuse. regardless of what you do or how you do it, you cannot put more than 13 amps through a 13amp fuse for more than its rated blow time. inrush of the welder at low power will probably be low enough not to blow the fuse, but on high power it needs a higher supply.

the best thing (and safest) to do is to get a 16 amp socket put in on its own MCB, preferably a type C as this has a curve more suited to high inrush currents and will allow a higher current for longer before tripping.

but hey, what do I know, im only a sparky...

 

[BrokenBiker]

Should have said it tripped the consumer fuse. Haven't checked the 13a plug fuse yet.

If it trips the consumer unit what would the problem be?

if it has tripped a 16 or 32 amp mcb then I would say it has probably blown the inline fuse on the live pin of the plug. as said your best bet is to get a 16amp mcb running a 16amp commando type ceeform socket dedicated for the welder. it wont cost nearly as much as you think depending on your current Consumer unit and MCB's

 

[Bill Edwards]

Tell us what is written on the trip that has gone, which is better than guessing. It may be that it can be upgraded to a type 'C', with enough information somebody on here can probably tell you what is OK and safe.

The 16a plugs are advantageous because you don't blow 13a fuses but, although they certainly can blow, it may not be a common enough problem for you to need to alter anything.

 

[Kent]

im sorry but it is all a load of b*llocks, if you have a 13 amp fuse you have a 13amp fuse. putting a 16amp plug and socket in between the 13amp fuse and the welder is just creating a longer lead and one more connection to get hot. as bright spark has said its not a booster cable, or a magical way of getting more amps down a cable by tricking it into thinking it has a higher fuse. regardless of what you do or how you do it, you cannot put more than 13 amps through a 13amp fuse for more than its rated blow time. inrush of the welder at low power will probably be low enough not to blow the fuse, but on high power it needs a higher supply.

the best thing (and safest) to do is to get a 16 amp socket put in on its own MCB, preferably a type C as this has a curve more suited to high inrush currents and will allow a higher current for longer before tripping.

but hey, what do I know, im only a sparky...

Yet I have had one spark tell me the reason, a service engineer for one of the biggest welding plant suppliers give me the tip - OH and I have successfully employed it and trust me it seriously cuts the amount of 13amp plug fuses you get through when forced to work on std supply
I thought you worked on a lathe turning large batches in a factory? or have you gone full time on the house bashing now?

It don't work 100% but its down to the cable sizes and lengths

 

[BrokenBiker]

Yet I have had one spark tell me the reason, a service engineer for one of the biggest welding plant suppliers give me the tip - OH and I have successfully employed it and trust me it seriously cuts the amount of 13amp plug fuses you get through when forced to work on std supply
I thought you worked on a lathe turning large batches in a factory? or have you gone full time on the house bashing now?

It don't work 100% but its down to the cable sizes and lengths

Regardless of my current job, I am a qualified electrician, have worked as a maintenance electrician, have worked as a domestic electrician, have various qualifications and experience to allow me to call myself an electrician. Please tell me, what difference does my current role make to this fact? It seems you don't like being told any different to your own opinion. You have had one sparky tell you something and that appears to be the end of it. Now, the fact of the matter is, regardless of how many 16 amp plugs you put between the supply and the welder, if the main connection is a 13 amp domestic plug top then you are going to blow fuses if you try to pull more than 13amps for any prolonged period of time. Maybe you should look at a few other factors before telling me more about how your magical 16 amp plug has made the laws of electricity differ to the norm.

 

[dannyp]

the only thing i've found about the 13A plug to 16A or even 32A socket trick that saves fuses on site work is the 4mm2 cabel the extension lead is made from between it and the welder.

it dosent upgrade your supply tho it just means there is less of a voltage drop than you would have had if useing 50 mtrs of the thinnest nastyest flex that chould be found in china and wound round a reel. if your welding useing an inverter and it gets the full 230v supply it'll draw less current for a given output, cut it's supply voltage down and it'll start drawing more current thats when fuses start poping

 

[Wallace]

Have a check of the 13A plug connections and wiring, doesn't take long to remake them or replace the plug itself as they do take a hammering from inrush current and get hot causing a high resistance joint. Sockets can suffer too but as they are on a 30A ring main the wiring copes better.