High Speed mig and TwinPulse on CrNi

[matt1978]

Hi,

I was just browsing thru my camera and I found some pics of a couple of the samples I did whilst at the show in Utrecht.

1st one is Steel, welded using our high speed process, 17.5 Meters/Minute wire speed, 1.2mm Wire, Argoshield Universal.

Other 1 is 3mm CrNi, on TwinPulse with a 2.5% Co2/97.5% Argon, 1mm 316 Lsi wire.

 

[Hitch]

Shame, i can only see the steel one Matt.

 

[matt1978]

I am struggling to upload the CrNi, its a Jpeg and I think its too large 2.3mb?

How can I do it?

 

[snowcat]

Whats the High speed process, Semi automated???

BTW I compress the photos with photoeditor...

 

[matt1978]

No I manually welded it.

Although the Wire speed is very high, the amps are low in comparison so its not too harsh on the back of your hand.

You could run a standard mig at 17.5 meters/min but you would never control the pool (it would roll over) and you would be pulling close to 450-500amps.

 

[matt1978]

We have 2 high speed, a high speed pulse which we can do with the Saprom and the one shown is Standard mig (non pulse), just using the software installed on our P Series.

On average its increases deposition rates by atleast 35%....normal mig would only be about 11-12m/min for the same amps.

 

[matt1978]

Re-Sized CrNi

 

[Hitch]

Nice

I think with these fancy welding plants you really need to know what your doing on the setup to get results like that.

 

[matt1978]

You get that in the training when you buy one.........from us anyway....I know that a lot of other manufacturers just drop the kit off on a pallet and do one....mainly because the guys selling them arn't welders and don't know how to get the best of the machines themselves!

 

[Hitch]

Thats what happened when we got our Hitachi units.

 

[matt1978]

I see it all over

I got a couple of dealers down your way who would do you a trade in

 

[snowcat]

As Hitch said Nice, My Synergic Experience is limited to say the least, Have done a few bits with me pals Fronius, but looking at those pics, we have never set the machines up properly as the welds have been no were near as fancy looking as them.... He's since sold one and the other gets used more as a standard mig to do bits of LCMS work than anything else


Excellent machine's for production, but kinda wasted on the likes of me (and me mate) it seams.......

 

[matt1978]

Aluminium

I got a Aluminium one too,

It don't look quite as good on the photo as in real life.......honest

Anyway, I was welded with TwinPulse with a AlMg 5% wire...1.2mm (Hence the little bit of soot)....100% Argon.

Torch used was 10 meter PT (Planatary drive) Digital push/pull.

Parant material was 2.5mm thick.

 

[astro_al]

Amazing!

At the risk of not understanding the answer... Can you explain twin-pulse? (Or is it just a label/name?)

Also, with the CrNi one - what is the brassy colour around each 'wave'?

Cheers, Al. - Keep 'em coming!

 

[matt1978]

Amazing!

At the risk of not understanding the answer... Can you explain twin-pulse? (Or is it just a label/name?)

Also, with the CrNi one - what is the brassy colour around each 'wave'?

Cheers, Al. - Keep 'em coming!

TwinPulse was Invented by Lorch but TwinPulse is just the brandname........now quite a few manufacturers have something simerla....SyncroPulse, PowerPulse, Double Pulse etc but as with everything in life not all machines perform the same and give the same results even though they claim to have the same software!

Anyway, TwinPulse is normal Pulsed mig, but with a low frequency pulse (0.5Hz-5Hz) is super imposed over the top of the mean wire speed. Basically you weld with 2 amp/wire speed values........for example 100 amps in the peak and 50 amps in the background and seen as amps are determined by wire speed on the mig process, the wire is speeded up and slowed down accordingly, so its a little like a guy (or girl Sparkey) introducing and taking away the filler wire whilst he is Tig welding.

Apart from the cosmetic appearance benefits, it also can help with reducing distortion, because you have a cooling phase on the TwinPulse, it also can help improve the weld integrity on Aluminium because the de-gassing time is longer.

The yellowy colour on the stainless is where it has started to oxidise when it was cooling......it happens with any welding process on Stainless steel, unless you weld it inside a completely protected environment, such as a welding bubble. To be fair Golden, Yellow and Light Blue and Blue are deemed acceptable because they can easily be wirebrushed, but when it becomes Dark Purple, Grey or even Black then it is totally oxidised.

To only get Yellow and Blue colours on Mig is very good

 

[astro_al]

Thanks Matt, thats fascinating.

Post up any more you find!

Seems like Migs are becoming a bit like auto-filling Tigs!!

Thanks for the interesting reply. Al.

 

[matt1978]

This system can/has replaced a lot of tig applications, but there will always be applications for Tig welding, either when a really really high quality is required, a really small sized weld, or if the fit up is not very good etc

We also do a Cold wire tig system, that uses conventional tig but the filler wire is automatically fed into the pool

 

[astro_al]

Yes I've heard about it but never seen it - do you have any videos of these things?

I wonder why you think there will always be a difference between Mig and Tig - is there no chance that the two could merge in the long run? What is it that fundamentally separates them? After all, aren't they both just an arc and filler - in very crude terms? Why could a mig never do what you list above?

I only ask because I bet a few years back no-one would have thought a mig could do what you've posted, maybe???

Either way, its great to see welds like that!

Cheers, Al.

 

[matt1978]

When Pulsed mig was introduced it did replace a lot of conventional tig welding jobs and then with the introduction of TwinPulse it replaced a lot more.

But Tig is a higher quality process when its done correctly, with Mig you are adding filler wire as soon as you squeeze the trigger because the arc is made from the end of the wire, with tig the arc and filler wire are completely separate and independent. The tig guy decides when and how much filler wire is introduced, with mig this has to be decided before welding when you set the wirespeed.

On Pipe welding (which is major tig territory) the fit ups arn't always as good as they should be but it doesn't matter to the tig guy because he can speed up or slow down or put more/less wire in as is required. The start stops on Tig welding are practically invisible because the guy can just melt the last stop point without adding filler wire, you can't do that on mig.

You also lose some of the alloying elements from the wire when mig welding because its open arc process and some of the elements are burned off through as its transfered across the arc, but with tig, the solid filler wire is dipped directly into the pool and it doesn't melt until it touches the pool.

I reckon about 75% of jobs can be mig welded, either conventionally, Pulse miged or with TwinPulse but there will always be about 25% of jobs that will always need the quality and accuracy of tig process.

 

[astro_al]

Fascinating, thanks.

I guess how close Mig gets to Tig will be defined by the minimum possible wire speed for maintaining an arc for a given setup.

I wonder if you could have a kind of multiprocess torch where the arc can be maintained indefinitely but some kind of electrode and the user can dictate when to start filler feeding in - either under his/her rate control, or automatically controlled, or a combo (users basic feed rate (pedal?) with pulsing done automatically on top for example).

Sorry for the rather odd idea!

I never would have thought about the burn-off either. Thanks for the great info! Al.