learning mig welding

[Jan]

When I started my first job in the steel industry (back then we still had a huge steel industry in Sheffield) I worked in the 'destructive testing laboratory' of Edgar Allen Forgings, Castings Division. I received the princely salary of £20 per calendar month and spent one day per month at Rotherham College of Arts & Technology studying metallurgy. After all these years I can no longer recall anything I learned on that course, but I've picked up far more from experience and experimentation during the intervening decades. Oddly my practical knowledge wouldn't help me find a job, but the formal qualifications would!

I think that's what the OP should be aiming for.

 

[pete6666]

i will try and get some pics of his welds,all the other lads say he is a dog at welding pipes

 

[pete6666]

what would be a good stick welder to start out with.

 

[Jan]

Often the cheapest ones can be found at most car boot/junk markets. The downside is that you don't have any guarantee that they work or will continue to work for any significant period after purchase. Having said that; I bought an old transformer SIP buzz box for almost nothing a couple of decades ago or more and it still works as well today as the day I bought it. In practice these older types are virtually unbreakable compared to the relatively delicate electronics in more modern units. A decent alternative is eBay where you can check it out on the day you collect and (if it's any good) pay for it. It's preferable to use the 'nearest first' filter when looking for anything that's going to have significant postage costs due to weight. If you're going for a new one, then distance and after sales service are more important then almost anything else. Quality will usually, but not always, be reflected in the cost. Cheap usually isn't all that cheerful, while many 'top of the range' machines will likely be overpriced. Go for the middle ground and you'll be well served for many years. I'm sure you already know the names of the usual suspects:
Weldequip
Machine Mart
Screwfix
Toolstation
Halfrauds
et al.

 

[PTvor]

There's plenty of discussions on here about buying stick welders if you look through the Buying a Welder section and the Arc Welding section. Use the search facility.

There's also this

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/buying-arc-welder.htm


If you are going to go for a buzz box, go for an old one even if it looks a bit tatty and you have to do bits and pieces like put a new earth clamp on (about £3) or a new electrode older (£5 and up). The older ones were made when buzz-boxes were taken more seriously and copper was cheaper, and tend to be better made with less problems with overheating.

 

[Jan]

Tatty? My SIP buzz box wouldn't look out of place in a pile of scrap! You wouldn't pick it up on a bet, but it will weld at full chat for tens of minutes before overheating and cutting out. Five minutes later it will fire up again and work for almost as long and keep doing so for as long as necessary. If I keep it under 80% power output the duty cycle becomes 100%. As you may guess it has its own internal fan.

 

[Kent]

At 12 weeks a could carry, hold, grind, knock spatter off! After a bit I was trusted to cut, not forgetting going for the bacon butties in the morn and the chips at dinner!. Its not how fast you get there its were you end up, its hard to have a day without learning something but its easy to have one you forget.
For a stick set I love the new inverters I have a 180 ESAB here and it will do pretty much anything with a rod up to 3.2 mm. I don't miss those silly little buzz boxes one bit weld a bit, wait a bit, weld another bit, weld another bit. I can now run up to 120amp pretty much flat out off normal mains supply. I don't miss that great big smelly diesel genny welder strapped in behind the bulkhead of the van either. Just this morn I put in a big old multi pass uphill in, had to wait for the steel to cool more than the welder, no probs with long heavy torch and earth leads either you can strap one of these to your back and scale a scaffold no issues. What you want a stick set for with your own money anyhow? Gosh I had lots better things to spend my £30 on
When I leant mig me and the other guys used to learn to sign our names on bits of scrap plate, I think that's pretty good practice (especially if you have a long name)

 

[norlander]

The welds look ok Pete, I'll stick my head above the parapet here and say that with MIG, I'd expect to see welds like that around the end of the first full week-my experience recently with a decent MIG set has shown me that once you get the settings right for the material you are welding its a POP-vertical up, overhead,gaps all much easier than MMA, and it can knock out nice looking beads.
Bit more of a knack required on the thinner stuff, but again, set her up right and its pretty easy-but I do MMA/TIG/OxyA as well so I did not come to MIG as a virgin welder as it were.
As an apprentice, I did try to get my own MMA kit to practice/make stuff at home, however, at the time, kit for DIY was not available, but I'd go for it now to practice in my own time.

As to what welder to buy, I think I would get a basic buzzbox and learn/practice the hard way with AC and no fancy inverter type aids to make MMA easier-cheaper than an inverter as well of course.
Check what rods you use on a buzzbox-6013s should be right I'd reckon.You can maybe pick up a Secondhand inverter later-maybe one with a lift TIG facility as well. If you get the hang of MMA on a basic AC box, using a DC later will be a pleasant suprise.I think thats right-I'm not really up to speed on this new fangled kit to be honest-but if I'm wrong someone on here will put me right.

WHY get your own kit? well I wanted it so I could practice vertical and overhead in my own time without some **** asking what I was doing or moaning cos I was not at tea break or starting early/working late and so on, or the boss going on about cost of rods etc.
Second, the welding plant at college was rubbish and the stuff the instructor had us doing bore little relation to most of the stuff I did at work so I wanted to get my own kit-but as I say, at the time it was not really possible.
I don't bother about duty cycles for DIY and working on my own because cutting; fettling,tacking and adjusting all give the machine a break, I've never run into a cutout on any of the kit I own.
Do take into account though, its not just the outlay on the welder, you will probably need a 115/125 angle grinder and some PPE-then there are clamps etc etc, but- you could just do runs on scrap stuff first without actually joining bits together/making things.You can get away with minimal prep for MMA-you can just burn through rust and you won't be doing anything critical anyway-but you learn more by making joints so try to move on to that when you can afford it.
One last point-with MIG its common practice to hold the torch with 2 hands-or rather steady the torch with the none torch hand-fair enough-its easy to wander with a MIG torch. If you are going to learn MMA, don't prop or support the torch hand-sometimes with MMA, you can be up a ladder, standing on an RSJ with thin air all round you or on your back neath a pipe- in P-ing rain -you sometimes need your freehand to hang on to something or someone-the reactive masks are a great help for that BTW.

 

[Jan]

Your comments on one/two handed welding are probably what most DIYers may do from time to time, but if an employer expected you do them that way you would be warranted to **** him and then report him to H&S. People have ended up badly injured or even dead from unsafe work practices that have 'slipped past' the onsite Safety Officer - usually through collusion between him/her and management!
When I performed that duty as part of my job we had a weekly 'walk around' the warehouse and I didn't let even the slightest infringement of safety rules escape my notice down to checking fixed wooden stair treads and risers.

 

[norlander]

Your comments on one/two handed welding are probably what most DIYers may do from time to time, but if an employer expected you do them that way you would be warranted to **** him and then report him to H&S. People have ended up badly injured or even dead from unsafe work practices that have 'slipped past' the onsite Safety Officer - usually through collusion between him/her and management!
When I performed that duty as part of my job we had a weekly 'walk around' the warehouse and I didn't let even the slightest infringement of safety rules escape my notice down to checking fixed wooden stair treads and risers.

walking round a warehouse with reasonable hard floors and access equipment available is one thing -and you would be daft-and downright negligent not to use the kit provided-but on a muddy, shuttered,concrete pouring, tower crane lifting,shuttering chippies/steel fixers working construction site it aint so easy to get all the kit in place so you normally wear a safety harness.Ever stepped off and tweaked the rope? -if you have-you hang on to something with your free hand cos you sure don't want to repeat the experience.The best safety guys on construction sites IMHO are the banksmen as they are out with you in all weathers-as long as the tower crane is working and watch your back-so if you do end up on site work young Pete-buy the banksman a mug of tea.
And make sure the safety harness is properly adjusted then if you do step off you should avoid your crown jewels getting hammered-don't remind me how I know that.
Thread is getting bumped a bit but whilst we are on the subject Pete, get some safety specs and wear them -there are some cool styles now and you can weld whilst wearing then behind the mask-its not cissy to wear em-there might be some one eyed welders about-but blind welders? doubt it-get into the habit and its hardly a hassle compared to a visit to casualty.

 

[Kent]

Health and safety was a good thing as it made us all more aware but sometimes its too far reaching and written by persons who have never done the job at hand. Good bit on propping (always prop when ever you can) when you cant get your elbow in real tight to your body with stick or make a prop with a loop of your welding leads with a simple overhand knot in a loop The thing with stick is keeping a tight arc, the new sets with hot start and anti stick are really cool though. A lot of young guys don't get to learn it though which is a great shame because when you need it you really need it so go for it (most bosses only want you to learn what they need you doing that's true enough I suppose that's your thoughts)

 

[cumbriasteve]

I was in the process of removing our friendly spammer, can I remind members if they suspect a post is spamming to report it.

Thanks

 

[Shedendman]

Sorry,will do guv