Why have I sub-contracted design work out to a idiot again?

[Rocketman]

I just don't know why I did it. I had too much work on so needed to sub some design work out.

Now every time I sub design work out to this certain guy I end up regretting and say never again I need to find someone else.

So last week I got some extra work and for what ever reason that is beyond me I thought yeah subbing it out to this guy will be fine what could go wrong it's simple.

As usually my initial thoughts have been totally dashed. I have been wiping his rear from the start of it last week, he's running late and I'm at the point now what on earth was I thinking.

Seriously this time is the last.

I need to find someone else or this guy will send me to the grave.

Anyway feel better just getting it off my chest.

 

[Sidewinder]

What do you need designing?

 

[chunkolini]

The idiots are always available at short notice.

 

[Rocketman]

What do you need designing?

Injection mould tool design.

The idiots are always available at short notice.

Too right.

I had pencilled him in to do another starting on Monday. But that's off now I will have to tell my client they will have to wait a week before I can start the new one - I'd rather lose the job than give this guy another design to do.

 

[Rocketman]

I already had bad feelings about this on Monday when he rang me up to ask me if I would ring DME to see if they did a bolster size which didn't appear in the new catalogue but was in the old one.

I said to him - "you just rang me up to then ring a supplier to find something out to then ring him back again. Why don't you just ring the supplier up and it will be faster and less chance of something getting lost in translation"

 

[Sidewinder]

OK, mould tooling is not my "thing"!
Done some press tooling, and some machine tool tooling, but not moulds.
I do know a mould designer though, however, you don't know me, nor him!

 

[Rocketman]

Just to make it all the more painful. I received the finished and I will use the word finished files very loosely today. The toolmaker needed the files today and that was essential.

So what did I get -

3D models - well I got a step file but when I opened it it had nothing except the part model in it, no 3D models of the tool.
2D GA & details - just rushed crap.
Parts list - few mistakes on it I have spotted already and no reference to detail details on the drawings.

So this is going just great

 

[bump]

Not one of the mad buggers on Dodwells is it?

 

[the snooper]

The idiots are always available at short notice.

I don't think you need to look for idiots they always find you

 

[BrokenBiker]

and old saying, how did a fool and his money get together? Because you keep giving him work

 

[Rocketman]

Well to be fair 'once' his work wasn't too bad but this is just taking the proverbial now.

He is getting 1k for 7 days work tops so there is no excuse for a bad job. Believe me he won't be getting another.

But.... tonight I'm resorting to fixing the 2D in DraftSight because I don't have the SolidWorks files so I can get at least the client some decent drawings tonight. (The client was supposed to be doing the cutter paths from the 3D in the morning but that is out the window) I'm not a happy bunny to say the least.

I've only managed to do 3 hours of my own design work today - it's costing me big time.

 

[F.J.]

Tell him he's crap and that he won't be getting all his money as you have spent so much time correcting his mistakes. That way he should get the hint that you won't be using him anymore and you will save some cash if not getting the work out on time

 

[BrokenBiker]

i would dock him for the work you are having to do. I have subbed out work to supposedly competent people only to have the customer ring me up a few days later with the same fault. I didn't pay them as i couldn't see any evidence of what they had done, and they even admitted not being to find the fault afterwards (dodgy connection in ceiling rose) and that the light had just started working again so they left. Needless to say i haven't used them since

 

[Sidewinder]

He is getting 1k for 7 days work tops so there is no excuse for a bad job. Believe me he won't be getting another.

Well, if Mould Design "was" my thing, then you would NEVER have got me for that sort of money, pay peanuts get monkeys comes to mind.
£1k for 7 days comes out @ <£18 per hour, for a REAL Design Engineer, that is rubbish, I would be looking for twice that for me to even do craft work, design would be 3 times that least, and I am stacked out with work at the moment.

 

[BrokenBiker]

so ive made the right choice taking on a degree course in design and engineering then? Didn't realise how much money was involved

 

[Sidewinder]

Just make sure that you get suitable PII when you start taking on design work, that alone could cost you £10k pa depending on what you are designing.
My companies overheads for premises, vehicle, insurances & other overheads etc. for the work that we do is £3k5 per month for a 1 man Ltd Co.
So ,don't underestimate the costs that are involved in running a company where there is only one person bringing in the income, and the impact that has on the rates that you have to charge.

 

[Rocketman]

Well, if Mould Design "was" my thing, then you would NEVER have got me for that sort of money, pay peanuts get monkeys comes to mind.
£1k for 7 days comes out @ <£18 per hour, for a REAL Design Engineer, that is rubbish, I would be looking for twice that for me to even do craft work, design would be 3 times that least, and I am stacked out with work at the moment.

Well the fact is you could do it in 5 days, 7 days is the absolute max.

And while YOU may charge what YOU like and SAY that I can't get a REAL design engineer for that money. You don't know mould design.

Saying that would suggest that a tool design could charge £40 - £60 an hour which I can assure you YOU WOULD NOT GET ANY WORK! It clearly shows that you have no clue how much an injection mould tool costs and the pressure from foreign countries on tool manufacture price.

Now you may well earn £120000+ a year being a consultant design engineer. Many wouldn't believe you though TBH.

 

[Rocketman]

Just make sure that you get suitable PII when you start taking on design work, that alone could cost you £10k pa depending on what you are designing.
My companies overheads for premises, vehicle, insurances & other overheads etc. for the work that we do is £3k5 per month for a 1 man Ltd Co.
So ,don't underestimate the costs that are involved in running a company where there is only one person bringing in the income, and the impact that has on the rates that you have to charge.

Oh right so it's a company with overheads you are running!

So what on earth has that got to do with subcontracting tt a selfemployed guy who works at home??

Great the old company I worked at charged me out at £60 over 7 years ago - it's two totally different things.

 

[agrimog]

3d mould work, I would be looking around 40-50 per hour for that, to supply toolpathed files and parts lists for the block fittings, a lot would depend in whether it was soft or hard tooling as well, so your paying peanut prices at 1k a week

 

[Rocketman]

3d mould work, I would be looking around 40-50 per hour for that, to supply toolpathed files and parts lists for the block fittings, a lot would depend in whether it was soft or hard tooling as well, so your paying peanut prices at 1k a week

So how often do you get 3D mould work it sounds like not often by the remark block fittings. What are 'block fitting' you are talking about?? Who's talking about supplying cutter paths not me - that is a whole different ball game and requires larger overheads for the software - ie Delcam + software maintenance so it obviously cost more but that is not what we are talking about here.

When you say soft and hard tool, it's not phrases used in the injection mould tooling industry?

Believe me I know exactly the prices for tools & design. I know prices in the UK I know prices in China. I used to put tools out to china and sort out the prices in a previous job. I used to put tool designs out for a company in the UK so I am well familiar with costing. There used to be some big design house specialised in tool design and sometimes when other people weren't available you had to use them but they had the usual high overheads - funny thing is they went bust as more pressure came on UK toolmaking from China. A company came to me not long ago with over 200 plastic part designs which they need tooling configurations, spread sheets, bolster sizes and reference tool designs to put the work out to China for them - ending up sorting out 120 tool configurations - bolster sizes etc.

I do work for some of the biggest toolmakers makers left in the UK. Tool designs/part designs for POS, white good, automotive tooling, electronics .

I have done just under 100k worth of tool design for a single client who is a international multi million pound business.

So I know exactly exactly how much tools cost and how much of that tool cost has been roughly allocated to design and I know the max I can push certain clients.

Yes this isn't the best design/manufacturering game to be in for some years now - it's eased slightly in the last couple of years and will continue to ease as the overheads are going up for making tools in China. It's still a major problem that toolmaking has been devastated over the last 15 years in the UK though.

Let's not forget this guy made £1000 from Friday to the following Friday and he has virtually no overheads - he doesn't need to drive anywhere and updates his computer say every 3 years and maintenance on solidworks every other year. BTW he has designed 1000's of injection mould tools. So lets say he makes a good 45k a year net nearly twice the average wage in the UK and doesn't have to leave his house in the morning to do that.

The actual problem it transpires now he was doing several jobs at the same time and was just rushing to get them out.