any woodburner stove people in here?

[steveo3002]

can i ask peoples thoughts on this

1950s bunglaow had a rayburn originaly stood beside a brick chimney and piped into that

i was hoping i could diy fit a log burner and pipe into the original chimney ? can it be so ? the internet seems to suggest i must run a stainless pipe up the chimney or the world may end ?

like so..chimney has its "floor" about chest high

 

[RBDIVE]

You would need to smoke test the existing to ensure integrity then you could get away without a class 1 liner. I would also have the stack swept, check there is ample draw.
And the install it should be signed off by building control or Hetas etc etc. check out Part J of the building regs.

 

[F.J.]

As above, get the stacked cleaned out as just last week a mate of mine fitted his woodburner without checking the chimney, and first burn filled his house with soot/dust/smoke!!!!! His missus wasnt too chuffed as they had just finished decorating

 

[Shox Dr]

...and an excellent example why they need HETAS or building control approved installation

 

[norlander]

I don't see any problems-thats how my woodburner is hooked up to the chimney in my (french) house.
As has been suggested, get a chimney sweep in first-they know more about chimneys than just stuffing brushes up them and a proper sweep should probably be able to offer advice on the planned installation and good log burning practice-like using properley seasoned wood etc.
We are supposed to have our chimneys swept every year as burning wood can cause tar deposits which can build up and cause chimney fires.
I had the chimney swept this year after 10 winters and it was clean as a whistle-the sweep reckoned that was due to burning well seasoned wood.
I took a chimney down in an old house and there was a staggering amount of tar build up in the chimney-I belted it with a lump hammer and a chipping hammer and it would not shift-so a sweeps brush set would have no chance.
You can burn a chemical log or sachets of powder which are supposed to to coat any tar deposits/soot and reduce fire risk but I reckon if you burn seasoned hardwoods you'll be fine.
Can't beat a finely crafted beer in front of a log burner at the end of the day.

 

[steveo3002]

seems all the people that sell liners say you 99% chance need the liner fitting

others suggest its fine if in good condition and people have been having chimneys for years now

i guess its like asking in the tv if i need a new aerial and leads to go with the tv

 

[normspanners]

My bungalow was built 1930 my NOW front room, was a bedroom, and I think didnt have a lot of use, I made and fitted an open dog grate type fire / woodburner , I have have never swept the chimney in 25 yrs, I went on the roof the otherday to have a look and the chimney is perfect you can still see the mortar lines and there is no build up at all. Maybe it is because when my fire is going it is really going and the chimney gets hot.
yet my wood burner boiler has a stainless chimney, that used to control itself by adjusting the air, before I modded it to waste oil, and that used to tar up incredibly quickly I used to free/ clean with a massive ball of barbed wire on drain rods but it was hard work an easier way was to let it go cold then start a massive stick fire and open it up fully it would start to rumble then you would get a red ring round the chimney that would slowly work itself up the pipe till it got to the top then there was a big cloud of sparks the rumble would stop and it would be perfect for months, a bit like cleaning a two stroke exhaust with oxy/ acet, you would get it burning then turn off the gas but keep the oxy on and that would do the red ring thing.

 

[MattF]

...and an excellent example why they need HETAS or building control approved installation

There are plenty of installs done by 'approved' installers which are a downright joke. A piece of paper doesn't mean diddly.

Just using common sense and not doing anything stupid is all that's needed. It's as with everything. The people flogging things will always try to tell you that you need their product. Just ask yourself how all the houses, from Tudor times onwards, (some likely before), are still around and merrily using their fireplaces with the original chimneys. It's scaremongering for nothing more than profit. Provided your chimney stack is in good order, use it for what it was designed to do and is still in functioning order for. In decent/good condition, it's likely to outlast any stainless liner.

 

[malcolm]

I'm looking into a wood burning stove in an existing chimney that currently has an open fire. http://www.stovefittersmanual.co.uk/ has sensible advice and is well worth an evening reading through.

Seems a wood burner is more efficient than an open fire so the gasses are cooler - leads to more deposits in the chimney hence more risk of chimney fire, also CO can linger a bit more and cracks in the chimney are bad. Liner increases flu temperatures reducing condensation and increasing extraction flow.

Planning to bung a liner in mine, but do it myself - been quoted £1k for a liner but materials costs are £200 and it should just be a case of getting to the chimney and dropping it down.

Building regs like you to get them involved in this sort of thing (they require it). It doesn't seem that painful apart from the extra money.

 

[Gritineye]

Never had a liner for my Rayburn or wood stove for 25 yrs, then had a chimney fire while burning lots of old documents with stove door open, stupid thing to do!

Then fitted a flue liner myself to the wood burner flue as the fire was a bit scary, and it should make sweeping more effective, wish I hadn't bothered now.

Liners are supposed to make your stove efficient, but the downside is that the whole chimney breast does not get anywhere near as hot as is used to, so a bigger fire and more logs are needed to maintain the same temperature, and when we let the fire go out the room gets much colder by morning, it used stay warm for days.

Just letting you know, because no salesman will...

 

[garethp]

Cheap liners are only guaranteed for 10 years and the better grade ones for 20 or 25 years.

How do you know if one has failed and needs replaced? The only thing I can think of is bits of stainless coming down with the soot when it gets swept but I would have thought by then it's completely wrecked and would have been leaking for years already?

 

[julianthegypsy]

Odd contradiction. If the stove is more efficient, there should be far less soot in the flue gas. What you see as smoke is unburnt particles of fuel. If its all burnt out then the lower temperature is surely irrelevant? Î also don't quite get why the gases should be at a much lower temperature anyway. There shouldn't be flames going up the chimney, but the inside of an efficient stove is hotter than an old one, hence the better burn. There's nothing to cool it on the way out, or am I missing something?

 

[waddycall]

I work for a stove manufacturer and used to install stoves for a living (in the 90's). There are many safe and efficient installations in use without liners. The older the property and the larger the flue the more likely it is to need a liner. As previously suggested try smoke testing it if in doubt - block the chimney pot, put a smoke pellet in the soot door, block the bottom and see if smoke escapes anywhere especially in the roof space. If all ok I'd be tempted to sweep the flue and give it a go. Make sure the flue pipe is sealed to the flue and stove. If it's worked for your Rayburn there's no reason why it wouldn't work for a stove. A slumbering Rayburn probably runs with a lower flue gas temperature anyway (assuming it had a boiler). As for Hetas approval it doesn't mean a thing. The same as Gas Safe/Corgi. It just means someone's paid a large amount of money to a commercial organisation to get a certificate. I've been on many of these competent persons scheme courses for solid fuel, gas, and oil and they're all the same. The oftec (oil) course I went on had questions in the exam about the most efficient thickness of double glazing! As previously suggested building regs doc J is a useful guide. If you google "office of the deputy prime minister" it should get you there.
Bear in mind that flues need ventilation to work dependant on the size of the fire and the leak tightness of the house. Also be careful if making your own stove to make it leak tight and controllable with a well baffled flue outlet which has a throat area at least equivalent to the flue pipe size.

 

[waddycall]

More efficient stoves do tend to burn hotter and as a result require less combustion air. This means there's less excess air to wash the hot gasses up the flue. The less air goes into a stove the longer the hot gasses stay in it and therefore the cooler the gas in the flue. Efficiency figures for stoves don't take into account heat given off by the chimney. Efficiency is worked out from the chemical content of the flue gas and the flue gas temperature a short distance above the flue outlet.

 

[normspanners]

My front room fire is not efficient probably, but man is it nice even my boxer dog LOVES IT !!
he comes and sits by me as I am building the fire and keeps lookin at me then the fire then back to me,then the fire, then he pushes his whole body against me till I light it, when its lit he sits by me watching the flames, if any sparks fly out he goes and puts his foot on them !! once its going properly he falls asleep with me in front of it, he 'spoons' with me !!
Maybe though it is more efficient than first thought, because the chimney gives heat into the house for hours, it is, after all a MASSIVE storage heater. The fire place I lined with 3mm steel because when I first had a fire in there with the standard fire place, you could not keep your hand on the outside wall, now the outside wall does not get noticeably warm. The higher part of the chimney outside does get hot, maybe a coating of that new idea of 75mm polystyrene sheet stuck on the outside wall, then rendered, to insulate the whole wall, may help keep the heat in the house.

 

[norlander]

first off I agree with Mr Grit and Mr normspanners about the residual heat from the cast iron burner and the chimbley after the burner has gone out-smashin -stick your flueliners up another place.

I have used the woodburner in this old house from september through to about may for the last ten years.For the last few years I have slept in front of the burner at night in deep winter-clearly-as I'm posting this I am not dead from fumes.
Just get the chimbley swept by a proper sweep before you install the burner.
Try to ensure you burn seasoned hardwood.Don't use the burner as an incinerator for paper rubbish-or at least do it in small batches.
Some of the cheaper burners are ok but they are not good at damping down and staying lit-Invictas if you get them over there are bad for that-mine just chomps the wood irrespective of the settings.
Looking at your drawing, you will most likely installing a freestanding stove, I would go for a frontloader with glass doors and rear flue exit-that way you can see the flames and put a kettle or stew on the flat top.
HTH.

 

[steveo3002]

early days yet

something in this style is what we would like
http://www.agaliving.com/our-products/stoves/little-wenlock.aspx

would be a bonus if the top could be used , although will have to have a good measure up as the rear exit would make it stand out further into the room

 

[Wedg1e]

Just as an aside, does a new woodburner installed in a garage (:cough: workshop ) also fall foul of building regs., HETAS, inheritance tax, COSHH and whatever else?
Or is the answer "only if you tell them"

 

[MattF]

Or is the answer "only if you tell them"

That's the answer I go with. Honestly though, as long as gumption is used, there's no reason anyone can't install one safely. The whole 'certified installer' thing is a crock. It's like everything else. They'd make people scared of their shadows these days, if they could.

I fitted this one in our living room a couple of years ago. Had to knock out the fireplace which had been bricked up.

Chased out and redid all of the mortar lines by hand, (literally. Took the skin off my fingertips doing those), and fitted this Coalbrookdale Little Wenlock:

Couple of stone slabs for the hearth, (nicked off our driveway ), bedded onto a concrete floor.

Biggest pain was fitting the plate in the chimney breast. Made it such a snug fit that it was a devil to get in. Raked out the mortar and seated it in then mortared it in place.

If anyone can say that's an unsafe install, I'll eat my hat, and I haven't spent a moment worrying about its safety either. I followed the regs as far as feasibly possible. Might end up shortening the flue pipe just a tad at some point though.

 

[steveo3002]

if you wanted a smooth painted finish on the bricks like above , is normal plaster work acceptable ? or do you need some kind of special material