SafeFlame - brazing using water

[Dev]

Anyone heard of this? http://www.safeflameproject.eu/what-is-safeflame/

SafeFlame utilizes an electrical current to electrolyze ordinary water, separating it into hydrogen and oxygen gas. Those gases are then mixed and ignited as they exit the torch's nozzle. By fine-tuning the proportions of the two gases, different types of flames can be produced for different applications.

Additionally, the length and heat of the flame can be adjusted by varying the amount of power delivered to the electrolyzer.
Because SafeFlame produces the hydrogen and oxygen right at the point of use, no cylinders full of flammable gases are required. Not only does this make fires and explosions much less likely to occur, but it also means that users don't have to purchase such gases, pay for their transportation, or find a safe place to store them.

Additionally, because the temperature of the flame can be brought down to the lowest level necessary for the job at hand, burns are less of a danger – both to human users, and to sensitive metals that have a low melting point.

Prototype SafeFlame units are currently being tested at various locations in Europe, with a commercial rollout planned to take place "in the near future." There's no word on pricing, although the developers have reportedly found a way of reducing the amount of platinum required for the electrolyzer, in order to help keep costs down.

 

[madkayaker]

It's done the rounds before but never seams to be substantiated. I think last time the owner of the system posted on here a couple of times

 

[chunkolini]

I have a vague memory of this too good to be true idea.

 

[rich the mechanic]

Using browns gas is do-able but you can get hydrogen embrittlement which requires the gas to be cooked out of the metal at a fair heat for some time which make it more of a pain than just using the normal methods and not everything can go in an oven.

 

[rich r]

Most of the problem with this sort of thing is that to get a flame big and hot enough to be useful, you have to put an awful lot of electricity in to get enough gas out. Far more than you'd use to strike an arc from an electrode which would perform the welding task just as well.

I've done school chemistry lab type demonstrations of splitting water and then combining the hydrogen and oxygen in a flame jet - but the flame is pretty small when using a standard lab power supply. So it does work in that a hot flame is produced, but it's not a lot of use practically - you'd be far better off just using mig, tig or arc.

 

[awemawson]

What they don't mention in the links is that when you disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen by electrolysis you produce an exactly explosive mix. We used to exploit this at school with dramatic results Made some superb bangs and even created a crater once !

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Yep hydrogen and oxygen do make a nice bang when ignited in large quantities! None of the little pop you get with little bits of hydrogen..!

 

[Dev]

Most of the problem with this sort of thing is that to get a flame big and hot enough to be useful, you have to put an awful lot of electricity in to get enough gas out. Far more than you'd use to strike an arc from an electrode which would perform the welding task just as well.

I've done school chemistry lab type demonstrations of splitting water and then combining the hydrogen and oxygen in a flame jet - but the flame is pretty small when using a standard lab power supply. So it does work in that a hot flame is produced, but it's not a lot of use practically - you'd be far better off just using mig, tig or arc.

I guess the advantage is doing whatever acetylene does without the need to store any explosive gases.

 

[hotrodder]

It doesn't do everything acetylene does though and the fire/explosion thing is pure snake oil logic, gas cylinders don't randomly go bang and the fire risk is from the person in charge of the business end of the torch

Standard shill practice...
1) take something ancient that's never been/is no longer in widespread use for various reasons or take something common and hype it up to be something it isn't
2) get the marketing dept to make it sound like some brilliant new breakthrough

 

[rikrobson]

Dont forget we used to make acetelyne from Calcium carbide and water!!!

My Grandfather used a carbide Lamp down t'pit.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

A lot of cavers still use them.

Dan

 

[Paul G]

I have no doubt that the gasses would burn but the resulting flame would give little heat.

Far better than hydrogen alone are mixes of carbon and hydrogen, known as hydrocarbons.


Butane for instance ( C4 H10 ) or Propane ( C3 H8 ) or the perfect, and therefore the hottest one, Acetylene ( C2 H2 )

When oxygen is added to acetylene we get C2 H2 O2 which forms H2O (water) & CO (carbon monoxide)

The water is given off as a vapour and the carbon monoxide formed in the inner cone, being an unstable element,
combines with oxygen from the surrounding air within the flames outer envelope, and becomes CO2. (carbon dioxide)


Anorak mode now off.
Paul G

 

[KemppiFrog]

Dont forget we used to make acetelyne from Calcium carbide and water!!!

My Grandfather used a carbide Lamp down t'pit.

More recently (possibly?) in the 70/80s, every workshop I visited in S. Portugal had a carbide generator for acetelyne. Being low pressure, much less risk of a 'pop' and I never heard of a problem. Looked like a gas cylinder in galv steel with a lid held down with hand screws and had a basket of carbide with a shaker inside and water. When it produced enough gas to push the water down, the process stopped and kept it a a light pressure. No regulator required.
Oxygen was in standard bottles.
Mind you, plenty of places with machines driven off over shafts with belts that one flicked on with a stick. HS&E would have loved it!