Advice on distance selling regs??

[gerrymoore]

I bought a sheet metal folder from a firm in Heywood. This was after speaking at length with someone over the suitability for the use I had. I had originally wanted their 'heavy duty' version but he told me they were no longer available - although still on their website - and that the normal duty would suffice.

It duly arrived and I paid £9.60 postage. Within ten minutes and two folds, I realised that not only was it not suitable but badly made and at best would give a radius bend and never a sharp bend - and not the same at each end.

I spoke to the guy and said I wanted to return it for a refund, I asked whether I would get my original postage refunded and, whilst he didn't say yes, he didn't say no!

Now, almost a week since they received it back, having heard nothing from them I emailed to ask when I might be refunded.

An hour later I had a curt reply saying they had refunded the purchase price and not the postage either way.

This has left me £16.40 out of pocket in shipping charges.

Now, I looked at the distance selling rules, and they state if 'not fit for purpose' then I should be refunded the full amount but have to pay return shipping.

Their website say they will only refund the full amount if the item is sent back unused!

How can you tell if anything is suitable or up to it's job if you don't try it?

I know it's not a fortune but the guy was very off hand, saying they had sold 100's and no one else had complained...if he has sold so many, I cannot see why he can't refund in full just to keep a customer happy..... who may buy from them again!

I'd welcome any thoughts on where I stand...

 

[rtbcomp]

http://www.out-law.com/page-430

 

[ajlelectronics]

My understanding is that you only pay reverse carriage if you change your mind. If the goods are faulty or not as described, they have to refund the lot.

Hopefully you pay by credit card or Paypal? Just request a chargeback.

 

[gerrymoore]

Hi...I did reply to RTcomp but it seems to have disappeared? Thanks for both inputs...I'll have a quick word with local trading standards and see what they think. Watch this space as I am a dog with a bone!

 

[Shox Dr]

Unless it states in their T&C that they do not pay return postage, then they are liable.

You also have the cooling off period where you can "inspect" the goods for suitability" however I'm not sure whether you have to pay the return postage on that one

 

[gerrymoore]

They only say they will refund the postage if the item is returned unused and in original packing...the fact that it is not 'fit for purpose' or 'faulty' is not mentioned....and of course, by then, it will not be 'unused'.

 

[rtbcomp]

Whatever they say, the law takes precedence.

 

[gerrymoore]

I've just written to my local trading standards office...I'll report back what they think. Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[ajlelectronics]

How did you pay for it?

 

[gerrymoore]

Unfortunately, by debit card...in future I'll use my credit card if unsure....

 

[ajlelectronics]

Well you ought to ask the bank if they will do a chargeback. As you clearly understand, they have no obligation, but some banks are starting to offer such help with debit cards.

 

[bigegg]

Write them a letter, pointing out their obligations under the "Sale of Goods Act" - NOT DSR, and giving them 14 days to send rest of refund including return postage, or you will initiate court proceedings.

Include the words "rejecting goods as not fit for purpose", and give your full story in the letter - including your discussion with the salesman who told you this model WOULD be fit for your purpose.
"My costs, including writing this letter, currently stand at <£20 per letter, including postage>. IF THIS MATTER PROGRESSES TO COURT, I WILL ALSO SEEK REIMBURSEMENT FOR THESE COSTS"

If no joy, then go to mcol.gov.uk and initiate a small claims actions.
If they decide to defend, then the matter will be transferred from the MCOL bulk centre ("Northampton County Court") to YOUR local court (you bought this as a private consumer/hobyist didn't you? ) which will cost them more than the refund to attend.

IANAL (yet)!

 

[ajlelectronics]

Good advice. One point though is that the return postage refund requirement is part of DSR rather than SOGA n'est ce pas?

 

[Jim_gsxr1000]

Far too much hassle for 16 squidlets

 

[ajlelectronics]

That's what they bank on and why it's worth making waves.

 

[Jim_gsxr1000]

Better off just bad mouthing them, to potential customers, the 16 quid would soon be swallowed up in wasted time and phone calls

 

[MattF]

Maybe, but it's the principle. If they both advised and supplied something which they knew wasn't fit for the purpose discussed, (nor really for any purpose, by the sounds of the build quality), then I personally can't see how they have a hope in hell of squirming out of refunding all costs, barring hoping that he'll just drop the matter through frustration. He wants to get his money first then make negative reviews publically. End of the day, they can't do a damned thing regarding bad publicity provided the O.P keeps things factual.

 

[bigegg]

Good advice. One point though is that the return postage refund requirement is part of DSR rather than SOGA n'est ce pas?

If you have to return something to a shop which is not "fit for purpose", you are technically able to claim your reasonable costs in returning it - like parking, travel, etc.
The idea is that you should be in the same position you would have been in if you had not made the purchase.
The DSR extends that to cover you against buying stuff you haven't been able to personally view or handle before buying, rather than stuff that doesn't work.

DSR covers stuff that works, that you don't like
SOGA covers stuff that doesn't work

 

[gerrymoore]

Story to date: Spoken to Citizens advice consumer dept...got to them through tradings standards who re-directed me.

Very helpful guy - might have been bigegg!! - he said just about the same. If I use the DSR then I am entitled to refund inc. delivery but not return. If I go for SOGA then entitled to both.

First though he says I should go to bank re a chargeback.

I have written to the firm explaining the situation as I have been advised and said I would be content with a full refund and that I would stand the return costs if matter closed asap...otherwise I will go to the small claims court and make a claim for the full amount plus any costs.

I have not heard back, either from my email yesterday or today. Neither have I received any refund even though they said it was refunded yesterday.

If the bank wont help tomorrow, I shall do as bigegg advises and send a recorded delivery letter to them.

JimGSXR...i understand what you're saying...it is only £16 and this is a lot of messing but - I have not earned any money in the UK since returning from Spain 2 years ago. I'm not crying poverty, but I am trying to get a business up and running and every £16 helps.

Also it is the principle....if and when I do get my business going, I hope I would treat each customer with respect and fairness.

20 years ago I started a computer business and was ripped off by two con men of £1500 for two pc's (only 386's as well!!). They paid by cheque just before declaring bankruptcy and thought, being a Ltd company, they had got away with a great deal of other peoples money.

They made a mistake with me as they paid me via a personal cheque. I took one of them to the high court and got it all back...took 7 years in all but I got it...a dog with a bone!!

 

[lchris21]

I can fully sympathise, with a recent experience. I bought an after market foot pedal for my TIG from a well known, supposedly respectable trader based in York. They also have a presence on Ebay.
The pedal never worked from the off, even though, foolishly, I got embroiled in a fault finding exercise, taking volt readings, making adjustments, even changing a potentiometer pot they sent out to try and rectify the problem. They tried making out I'd given them duff information, they've never made a pedal for that model, they don't accept warranty returns blah, blah, blah............
Exasperated by the situation after nearly 4 weeks of faffing around I sent the pedal back and promptly received a refund of the original purchase and P&P charges. After all my inconvenience and help in trying to rectify the problems, the least I deserved, so I thought was a refund of my £8:10 return postage. Numerous emails back and forth in a vain attempt to get the vendor to see sense fell on deaf ears. I even contacted the local trading standards and they advised me to seek advice from the Citizen's Advice Bureau, which would have eventually lead to the small claims court....................in the end I decided for the sake of £8:10, even though it goes against all my principles I put it down to experience, a bad one.

But, I WILL have the last laugh. As unbeknown to them at the time I was trying to get my £8:10 back, I purchase the workshop/welding equipment in the dept I work in, for a large..........very large company, and by chance 18months ago we bought one of their TIG sets via a local supplier. I've just been tasked to purchase some new equipment, which would amount to just over £5K, you can guess which company I've told the rep I don't want any equipment from................Coffee machine chats with Engineers from other departments will sure to get on the subject of which equipment we currently use, but also, and which stuff to avoid
I even told them this, but they just ignored my last email..............ah well

As Jim GSXR1000 says, sometimes you just got to cut your losses..........even though like you I'm like a dog with a bone, it really grips my poo
Good, reliable, keen companies always get my money these days, once bitten and all that.