Problems galore! Day 1 MIG plant rental. False economy?

[secretsmoker]

Beginning to wish I had not hired a welder now! I could not afford to buy a decent one so I thought rental would be better than buying a crappy one.

I collected this GYS SmartMIG 162 only this morning from UK toolhire Ilkeston and nothing but problems all day!

The most pressing issue is with the gas supply hoses. When I got it home and set everything up it was clear that gas was leaking from where the hose is clamped to the brass connector which attaches to the gas bottle. Obviously the machine isn't mine so no wanting to mess around with it and be blamed I called the hire company. Nobody was available to come to me so I had to take the thing back to them.

Went back to the hire place, they reclamped the hose but now it is leaking from the OTHER END of the hose where it connects to the machine itself. Not impressed. They obviously didn't test it and by the time I realised they had shut for the day. Needless to say I will probably be charged for the ferromaxx that has leaked out so far.

Probably going to have to go back to the hire place in the morning and very tempted to just ask for a refund for the inconvenience caused so far as I haven't actually managed to achieve anything in the first day of hire.

Other problems with very uneven wire feed and burnback. I am using 0.6 and when asked if I needed to change the sleeve the guy said the machine is set up with 0.6-0.8 sleeve?

I would love to try a different tip that I am sure is the correct size as I suspect the tip is also for 0.8 but I don't really want to spend any more money unless I am fairly sure of better results.

If I were to change the sleeve and tip to match the 0.6 wire, would that improve the burnback issues?

I have already gotten through 3 13amp fuses and tripped the circuit breaker numerous times. These problems seem to happen when the wire burns back to the tip and sticks, overloading the feeder which then fuses or trips out.

Incredibly annoyed so far as I have this thing for a week and I wanted to make some progress this evening. Instead work is on hold as I am worried about the gas leaking out.

Key point here appears to be that welder hire may not be for the beginner. Never really dealt with this hire company before so I am not sure how forthcoming they will be if I ask for an extra day!

So Frustrating!

 

[Badger1bear]

How much is the hire company charging you for a weeks rental ? could you not find someone local that you could of borrowed a machine from ? If this is your first venture into the world of mig welding you have certainly set yourself up with a baptism of fire

 

[Welderpaul]

In my experience, hire equipment is generally nice clean shiny rubbish. We hire stuff in emergencies only, and would rather buy than hire. Machines are usually treated very badly by their customers and, as i suspect, not tested properly before going back out to hire.
Unfortunately i have found the best way to deal with this is to be strong with them, and at the first sign of trouble get THEM to collect/replace the machine. They are always very quick to try and apportion damage to the latest unlucky hirer.

 

[secretsmoker]

Doh and DOH! Thanks for the prompt responses! Yeah I probably should have thought about this more, I was just excited to try and crack on.

Unfortunately nobody I know is very handy and so wouldn't even have simple tools to borrow, let alone welding equipment!

The hire is just shy of 40 quid for the week which didn't seem bad. The gas however is charged at 20 quid per quarter of a (full sized) bottle which is why I don't really want to go on using the thing whilst it is leaking.

I will get on the phone first thing and see what can be done. The first test welds I did on some 1.5mm scrap with low power came out really well. It is only since I started trying to attach some thicker brackets to some box section for a door aperture brace with higher power that I started getting the burnback and fusing happening!

Lesson learned I suppose but I would really like to try to make a go of it still as I booked the day off tomorrow too!

Feel like a bit of a t**t!

 

[Badger1bear]

In life
if you dont learn something new every day....you havent been listening

put it down to a learning experience, if your going to be doing a fair bit of welding, learning included then i would say buy the best welder that your money will run too

 

[secretsmoker]

You are definitely right there. Having become used to the lovely reliable industrial plants I was using at college this has been a bit of an eye opener!

If I can get any money back from the hire place I might just be able to beg borrow and steal enough to buy a half decent plant without having to wait too long.

So I take it that the consensus is that even with different tips/sleeves etc this machine is still likely to be more trouble than it's worth? Alarm bells should have been ringing when I saw the state of the gas shroud...

Cheers for the input!

 

[TargaMk3]

You know that you can buy good kit on a credit card, now before every one chews my head of think about this.

I need a new bit of kit, humm how much lets say 500, so I buy the kit on the credit card now I have one month free credit to pay off the purchase. I will admit here that I have a good credit score so if you don't have it isn't going to work. So Barclay's are offering 25 yes 25 months 0% for balance transfers. So take out the Barclay Card and transfer over the "500" from the other card. Result I now have 25 months of interest free payment scheme. It isn't illegal, it costs a lot less than finance and if it screws up and you have a problem the credit card it was bought on could refund you if there were real problems in getting you money back. All in all a good way to get some interest free loan.

 

[Badger1bear]

You know that you can buy good kit on a credit card, now before every one chews my head of think about this.

I need a new bit of kit, humm how much lets say 500, so I buy the kit on the credit card now I have one month free credit to pay off the purchase. I will admit here that I have a good credit score so if you don't have it isn't going to work. So Barclay's are offering 25 yes 25 months 0% for balance transfers. So take out the Barclay Caqrd and transfer over the "500" from the other card. Result I now have 25 moths of interest free payment scheme. It isn't illegal, it costs a lot less than finance and if it screws up and you have a problem the credit card it was bought on could refund you if there were real problems in getting you money back. All in all a good way to get some interest free loan.

would the 25 moths eat the money from your wallet ?

 

[TargaMk3]

Sod off just read it, yeah if the moths were called Osborn or Cameron or some other stupid name that I can't think off right now.

Nope like I said if you bought a mig for say 500 500 spread over 25 MONTHS is 20 pounds a MONTH. like I said 25 months at 0% for balance transfers. my son got one at the weekend (card) from RBS same sort of deal. He has just stopped paying out 19.odd percent a year, so instead of paying his minimal payment of say 40 quid a month and paying off about 3.00 off the capital he's making 37 quid a month to pay off the capital.

 

[spaffmonkey]

Hire tools are rairly any good they always seem to be on there last knockings.
If you are going to be doing more welding there are plenty of good used machines on fleabay that is where i got 2 of my welders but if you go to buy on there take your time and you can get a bargain. also you can show members the link if you need opinions.
both of mine have since been payed for by doing little jobs for people with them.

 

[secretsmoker]

I take it from a quick scan of threads that I could do worse than a Clarke 160TM?

Might go see if I can pick one up tomorrow as I am determined not to waste my day off now!

I will probly have to borrow some cash from the missus and/or father but I would rather do that than play with the credit side! I am not nearly wiley enough to keep track of that kind of thing. Still got a card from years ago that I never paid off or balance transfered on which I am paying interest on needlessly just because I am too lazy/forgetful to do anything with it.

 

[matt1978]

Problem is that I don't think Hire is for first time welders.

At £40 a week inc Vat there is not enough money in the job for the hire company to send someone to your house to come and fix a leaking gas hose.

If you believe that to be the only problem then you should just 'nip' up the jubilee clip, you won't be charged for causing damage if that's all you have done.

Regarding the feed problems, if the rollers are dual size as you mentioned 0.6mm/0.8mm could it be that they need switching round as they may well be set up for 0.8mm?

Red-D-Arc are by far the best welder rental company I have seen, all of the kit is weld tested prior to hire. None of it gets more than 5 yrs old as most of it is off hired and sold at around 3-4 yrs. BUT they are only interested in and deal with industrial scale hire. Not hiring a small 240v machine to a household for one week.

Make sure you call your hire company to complain

 

[kelsham]

Don't mean to sound a know all but I found I needed time to practise when I changed welders.
The feed rollers usually have a .8 and .6 groove which has to changed as well as the tip. The tips are marked on my machine.

Burning back, do you just need to turn up the wire speed or turn down the power.
Regards Kels

 

[secretsmoker]

So true, I am not sure hiring was the best idea on reflection. I haven't got much experience and am mostly used to using big machines at college which are vastly more expensive than I could ever afford but also incredibly reliable to use.

Good point with the feed roller. I made certain when I set it up that I was using the correct side as I was trying to avoid schoolboy errors! It seemed that even using the smallest groove and trying various different settings on the tension screw, the roll was never holding any tension and the feeder was slipping sometimes regardless of whether I tightened the roller or not.

The guys at the hire place in Ilsen were really good in the end and gave me a full refund both for the week of hire and for the gas/bottle. I didn't have to cause a fuss and I think they accepted that it wasn't due to improper usage or lack of experience. I know I could have just nipped up the connections but I didn't want to leave marks on them for them to then say I had broken it!

I am pleased with the this morning outcome and would not dissuade someone who knows their onions to hire if in need of a welder at short notice. Newbies: probably best to stay away! It is more trouble and faffing around than it's worth! I have already wasted 1 entire day off. You have been warned.

Off to try to find a Clarke 160TM from somewhere locally so as not to waste any more of today. Probably gonna have to buy some disposable bottles just for now but Ii will probably look in to hiring some Argoshield from BOC as soon as possible as I am loving welding at home! It's like having superpowers over metal in your own garage! Stupendous! I am rather excited to be thinking about buying my first welder now. Until I get more experienced I think I will steer clear of the second hand market and stick to the proven paths.

 

[secretsmoker]

Don't mean to sound a know all but I found I needed time to practise when I changed welders.
The feed rollers usually have a .8 and .6 groove which has to changed as well as the tip. The tips are marked on my machine.

Burning back, do you just need to turn up the wire speed or turn down the power.
Regards Kels

I realise from stuff I found online that the burnback was probably my lack of experience and the fact that I didn't have exactly the right tip. The thing I wasn't happy about was potentially being charged for all the Ferromaxx that had leaked out. All good lessons learned!

Am I OK using the same sleeve for 0.6/0.8 or do I need to change that over every time as well?

Off to the shop for tips, welder and teeny tiny gas bottles!

 

[Fintray]

No need to change the sleeve and consider getting a bigger bottle as those little ones don't last long!

 

[secretsmoker]

OK finally got back home. Eventful day so far. Ended up at Machine Mart this morning, bought the Clarke 160TM, felt fairly happy with that.

Then headed over to BOC and got a gas membership. Ended up getting one of the smaller bottles of Argoshield that is apparently good for 50 minutes of continuous welding so hopefully more than enough for now.

Whilst there I happened to see an offer they had on the last of the current batch of Xcalibur Eurostar 150. This thing looked miles better than the Clarke I had in the car. In the end we ended up going back to Machine Mart, returned the Clarke and then went back to BOC and took the Eurostar 150!

Bloomin knackered now from all the to-ing and fro-ing but hopefully now I can make a start for real this time. Really chuffed with the little machine. I haven't used it yet obviously but the guys in the BOC store on Raynesway seemed to know what they were talking about and I am hoping it should be a dependable little plant.

Next step coffee, food then cracking on FINALLY. Hopefully this thread helps some other newbies who may be thinking about hiring as this has been a bit of a palava all together. Many, many lessons learned. Pleased to finally have a machine that looks like it will do exactly what I need it to do and not to have to worry about time pressure now or lumping massive gas bottles around. Hoorah!

 

[Fintray]

Did you ask for the Volkzone offer for your gas from BOC?

 

[secretsmoker]

Haha that one passed me by! Oh well never mind, using the smaller bottles doesn't really break the bank. Might have been nice to get a discount on the welder but never mind, I am happy as anything with the new machine. Nearly finished putting my brace bars together for my door aperture so that I can finally properly attack my sill!

 

[Wallace]

A small bottle will go very quickly when you have a new welder to play with! Once empty and you go for a refill, don't ask for a replacement just tell them you want to do a return and transfer to the Volkszone offer. You will be credited back the remainder of the yearly rental on the existing bottle you are returning.

I don't think you made a mistake renting the welder, it was your cheapest option at the time but look at it this way, you managed to do some welding despite the faulty gear and they refunded your money so all it cost was your time and electricity! Also, you now know you are likely to have problems with fuses and trips that you can sort out now rather than half way through a job and rental time isn't ticking away. Don't forget to unwind any extension leads fully before welding.

Keep a tally of what you have spent so far and any jobs you do for people, you will find the new welder can soon pay for itself. I charged £350 for one job recently, the profit on that is easily half the cost of my new Portamig 215.