Budget low power Mig welder for Stainless ??

[30sqm]

Hi Gents, I've just registered to the website but have often read through different postings in my searching answers. So firstly : Thanks to all who are generous with their time and experiences to help us lost souls. You really are a great resource and a credit - in the best spirit of the internet

My primary justification for buying another welder is to make replacement stainless steel pushpit and pulpits for my 1972 sailing boat (a 30ft catamaran). Because these 'safety rails' double up on a catamaran, I estimate it'll cost something like £2,000+ to have these (and stainless rigging fittings I need) made up professionally. So I'm toying with the idea of buying a welder, having the S.S.316 tubes cnc bent to 3d tracings (which I've drawn / 3d modelled in Rhino) and to tack weld them up myself on the job (allowing for deck cambers and all that).

Then, I can drag those 'tacked fabrications' off to a professional, to have the joints neatly and fully welded. By doing all the shaping, cutting and setting up myself I hope to be able to save half the cost.

I used to use a professional mig welder to build multi-tubular car chassis' out of box section - but that was in the late 1970's. Thereafter (redundancy !) I owned a little blue Clarke Gas / gas-less mig (which was probably a 100e ?) Changing the earth lead and using argon-shield bottles, rather than canisters, gave me adequate results for all sorts of around the garage jobs. (the Gas-less gave horrid welds). Except for the occasional wire feed bird's nest caused by the wire burning back up the nozzle I did fine with that - only 30 years ago.!

So, I'm looking to buy a budget mig welder to do neat, strong, one-handed, stainless tacks, powered via a 13amp extension lead in a boat yard, (the machine being lifted up onto the deck of a boat), and then also have a handy (and reliable !) little welder for all those jobs I'd like to do around the garage and in restoring my old Sunbeam m/c's (rusty mudguards and battery box hinges).

Because of the 13amp I thought I'd need to restrict the size of the welder to a 140amp, but then I'll never weld anything thicker than 3mm - so on reduced power would I be OK to get a 150, 160, or 180 ? and benefit from longer duty cycles. Then I'd get wheels and a decent regulator in the price, and possibly better build quality (if that relates to reliability.?

I've never welded Stainless.. Is it as simple as changing the gas type and wire ?

I live (and the boat is) near Ipswich, Suffolk if anyone is local and would like / be generous enough to help me out (when the weather improves !), or indeed if they have a small but reliable machine - surplus to their requirement for sale, and/or can point me to a local and economical supplier for the gases. Did I read the refillable bottles are now available in a portable 2 litre size ?

Sealey are just 20 miles away in Bury St Edmunds and one or two local company sell recon' or factory returned units at a sensible price. Or should I find another Clarke ?

I really would appreciate some pointers before spending what's left of my life's savings..

Big Thanks, Big Pete

 

[shenion]

3mm will be about 130A. A Clarke 15x/16x (150 amp) would do fine. They are good machines for the price.

Stainless is just a matter of the wire and using the right gas. The "right" gas is expensive but you can get away with pure argon for tacks (they will be tall.) If you are having them TIG welded, they can probably melt the tacks down to a proper profile.

 

[Jim_gsxr1000]

Clarke range of migs are prety good value for money and there are VAT free vouchers kicking about at the moment untill the 11th of feb

 

[30sqm]

Thank you both Scott and Jim for your replies. I really do appreciate your advice.

From your recommendation to go for a 150 amp, might I confirm - in your experience : at a lower power setting I can weld without blowing the 13amp fuse ? or tripping the marina's electric boxes ? There's no powers surge when first striking the weld ?

can you advise what does the E, TE or EN mean as in 150TE and 151EN.? and sometime no suffix such as in the 152 ?? Aside from the blue welders looking archaic, are the configured carry a larger bottle than the red ones ?

And would you know ; Guessing the red ones are a later model - are they better or worse than the older style ones ? Sometimes companies cut corners on newer models so as to remain competitive, whereas perhaps the new case design improves cooling (or vice-versa ?)

Is SS wire is only available in 5kg spools ? Presumably Tungsten is the right gas for SS, ...and that is not available in small bottles ? Is the welding technique the same for SS as for ferrous.. ie. push for a flatter wider but less deep weld, pull for a narrower but deeper weld.?

I know - so many questions.. Clarke / Machine mart websites just don't give the information, and their product range coding and colours are confusing.

Saving VAT would be great help. I'll look around for that

Pete

 

[Wozzaaah]

Presumably Tungsten is the right gas for SS, ..

I dare you to ring up a gas supplier and ask for a small bottle of tungsten!
Tungsten is a metal, not a gas.

The correct gas for stainless would be something like this from BOC but if you're on a budget you could probably use a light argon mix such as Argoshield Light or similar.
Other gas companies do their own versions of both of those, I only picked BOC to show you the products.

If you want to be able to mount a gas cylinder onto the back of the welder then consider the Clarke 160TEM.

 

[30sqm]

aha ha.. Pretty difficult to fill the bottle then ! So the tungsten then is the non-consumable electrode, not the inert gas.. and then you fill the blast hole with the same sort of metal as being welded.. Fountain of all knowledge (aside from this forum) Wiki ; says that inert gas would be argon or helium. Ah ha, clear as a black rat in a cellar.. and why I ask questions !

160TEM ? I did a quick Google search and found 160TE and 160TM but not 160TEM. The TM has the platform for a larger bottle so I'll assume a typo crept in.

Please, can you advise whether this can be used (at a lower power setting) from a 13amp extension lead. ?

And if you hear of a good used one for sale at excellent price.. do let me know..!

thanks again, Pete

 

[shenion]

The tungsten is the electrode in TIG welding; not used in MIG.

For stainless, A He/CO2/Ar mix is normally used but expensive. Woz linked to Argoshield light that is an Ar/CO2/O2 mix that will work but need a bit of cleaning.

The 160TE/TM will work fine on a 13A socket on all but the highest settings.

 

[30sqm]

Thanks Scott, an all..,

I'll be on a lookout for a Clarke 150 or 160 then..

Very grateful for your advice - When I get one I'll say how I get on.

Best regards,

Pete

 

[KemppiFrog]

Not a reply to your MIG question, but I was asked to make some similar stuff for a 27ft sloop. I stick welded the 316 SS and carefully flap disked the welds down and pickled the results. Boat then set off on a transat. Bit later I was handed an insurance job on another yacht to repair all the stanchions and pulpit. Justified an inverter scratch TIG on the job. The inverter was also good for stick SS, much smoother than the buzz-box.
In retrospect, I should have just regassed my Kemppi and used 316 wire (which I now do) But I wanted to get to grips with TIG.
If it is only tacks for someone else to finish, then stick on a simple welder should be enough.
KF

 

[Exuptoy]

I have a powershack dc200r scratch start tig for sale for £100 if interested. Postage would be around £20 as its an inverter set and not too big. 1 pack of tungstens free with it and some stainless rods. You'd need gas and a reg to get going.
WP17 torch for cheap eBay consumables.

This is on 2mm mild steel






This was 6mm stainless





I also have a 150 turbo sip mig for sale cheap if you would prefer mig. It's in the used equipment sales page.

 

[30sqm]

Thanks Kf,

"In retrospect, I should have just regassed my Kemppi and used 316 wire".. I'm new to this world so guessed Kemppi was a type of welder (but just checked it up to make sure !). I presume then that it's a mig welder, with which you use 316 and Argosheild ?

Might I enquire what does pickling the results involve ?

Following the advice here given - I'm watching out for a Clarke 160 - preferably a TM but most likely for my £200 budget a TE., with which I'll also use 316 and Argosheild. (working to such a budget from East Anglia does take patience !)

I used to be pretty fair with my welding, so although my intent is to just tack the pulpit and pushpit together, If or should I say 'IF' I can do a decent enough job then I'll save a lot of hassle of moving it, and cost of pro welding, by doing it all myself. That would be satisfying.. but I'm my own worse enemy (anal !) when it comes to finding faults in my work.

Surely, welding nice clean 18swg steel tubing can't be that difficult compared with chasing paper thin (rusted through) car body panels or sills - even if that steel is stainless ??

Thanks.. Pete

 

[Exuptoy]

Pickling is just brushing on acid paste, leaving it settle for 10mins then wash it off.

Personally, I reckon a better looking job would be with Tig as it is a flatter weld, just takes a little practice. You can add as much filler rod as you like. I find tig an easier task to learn, similar to brazing really, just using the arc to move the pool then add filler as required. You can also fuse 2 piece together with no rod providing there's not much gap.

 

[Exuptoy]

Pickle is evil stuff though and it burns when you splash your skin.