Another puzzler for you mechs. VW this time.

[normspanners]

Another cold morning and started up n ran absolutelly fine, if the VV plate needs machining why did it not stick ? I can't see the n57 valve suddenly 'fixing' it's self, so that leaves ME with carboned up VV's ? The other reason the weather would have a bearing on this is the fact that lower temp = significant increase in fuel injected AND a prolonged period that this increased fuel is being injected. For an example of this, a car can fail an mot emitions test, if done when the car has only just been started, leave it to run for an extended period and it passes. I have done several that have just come off the road and failed looked at the temp gauge and the stat is holding them down to run at a cool temp, I have then let them run till fan kicks in and they pass, so basically the owner is paying, by using more fuel, to warm up the atmosphere. I have allways said that you can have all these so called enviromently friendly gadgets that eventualy make an engine run s**t, but the biggest cause of engines running rich is a bad thermo which is never part of anysort of test. If all engines where made to run at their CORRECT temp there would be a LOT less pollution.

 

[Dai P]

Hi Norm, just to confirm this definitely sounds like the turbo vanes sticking. We see these fairly regularly, had one in today in fact. The sticking vanes cause an over boost so the ecu cuts the power. Cycling the ignition resets it.

We've had good results stripping the turbos down and cleaning them with only a couple that were beyond saving. It's not a bad job just time consuming. If you do it yourself be careful with the small torx bolts inside the turbo, they seize and are easy to shear. If yours won't budge you can get 90% of the cleaning done by soaking it overnight in cleaning solution and working the vanes until they're free. If it does come apart be careful on reassembly, the little rollers can be awkward to get in just right.

It's well worth checking the actuator with a vacuum gauge before going too far with the turbo, they can stick and cause similar problems.

Hope you get it sorted.

Rgds,

Dai (SEAT tech)

 

[normspanners]

Cheers Dai that again confirms my diag's too, do you notice more of these come in, in the cold weather? and do most not show any DFC's? As I have said mine seems to recover after being driven VERY hard for a period (after warming of course) but when the wife pops to work n back we have more probs, do they seem to have more probs when grannied around ? my mates alhambra had a similiar thing a few mths ago he thought it felt like his semi auto i told him to drive it hard, using the 'hand changes' and his has been fine because some autobox 'problems' turn out to be a slight engine fault manifesting itself in the gearbox making rough changes etc

 

[hareng]

Was power ok when giving it sum?

Not a diesel but had similar doing the economy thing for months. Needed a good blowout but do notice less power and consumption in winter any way.
Vanes sticking on VAG motors is common, so is boost leaks.
Can be that many things even unrelated. Pulling EGR pipe off the ECU is compensating, its only for cold running any way junk it.

 

[normspanners]

Was power ok when giving it sum?

Thanks, Yes if you read earlier posts most has been explained,
regards N

 

[ukracer]

Was power ok when giving it sum?

Not a diesel but had similar doing the economy thing for months. Needed a good blowout but do notice less power and consumption in winter any way.
Vanes sticking on VAG motors is common, so is boost leaks.
Can be that many things even unrelated. Pulling EGR pipe off the ECU is compensating, its only for cold running any way junk it.

What happens when you just pull the vacuum pipe of the EGFR and drive it??

 

[ukracer]

Hi Norm, just to confirm this definitely sounds like the turbo vanes sticking. We see these fairly regularly, had one in today in fact. The sticking vanes cause an over boost so the ecu cuts the power. Cycling the ignition resets it.

Can the over boost cause vibration or oscillation before it cuts out??

We've had good results stripping the turbos down and cleaning them with only a couple that were beyond saving. It's not a bad job just time consuming. If you do it yourself be careful with the small torx bolts inside the turbo, they seize and are easy to shear. If yours won't budge you can get 90% of the cleaning done by soaking it overnight in cleaning solution and working the vanes until they're free. If it does come apart be careful on reassembly, the little rollers can be awkward to get in just right.

It's well worth checking the actuator with a vacuum gauge before going too far with the turbo, they can stick and cause similar problems.

Hope you get it sorted.

Rgds,

Dai (SEAT tech)

where is the actuator sited??

when you say beyond saving what was wrong with them??

So I take it you are not a fan of the Mr Muscle method of cleaning with Turbo in situe??

 

[normspanners]

What happens when you just pull the vacuum pipe of the EGFR and drive it??

1/ you will have a vacuum leak
2/ on mine it has a feed back potensiometer on the vacuum valve so the ecu will 'see' that the egr is not operating when the ecu sends the signal for it to operate and immediatly put on man. light

 

[Dai P]

Most present with an over boost DTC on the pressure sensor.

If the ecu is trying to control the boost the it could cause a vibration before it cuts it completely. The actuator is the little canister in the bottom of the turbo as below. With a vacuum gauge connected to the little pipe on the bottom the actuator rod should move gradually as the vacuum rises, rather than stay put and then go in one big jump.

With the ones that had to be replaced the torx screws could not be removed and we could not free the vanes up sufficiently.

We do advise customers who have just started having issues to try some Forte cleaner and a bit of spirited driving. Forte have brought out a new product specifically aimed at this problem. It does seem to have an effect if there isn't too much soot build up.

The torx screws, actuating ring (worn in this case),rollers and fingers can be seen below.

Hope this helps.

Rgds,

Dai

 

[AndyStobbs]

Now that is an interesting pic, I've not seen a VGT stripped like that before as I've yet to have a job come along with that sort of problem.

Thanks for sharing Dai

 

[ukracer]

1/ you will have a vacuum leak
2/ on mine it has a feed back potensiometer on the vacuum valve so the ecu will 'see' that the egr is not operating when the ecu sends the signal for it to operate and immediatly put on man. light

What I meant was what effect will it have if the vacuum pipe is blocked off so the valve never moves.

What reg is yours as mine does not seem to have a potentiometer as no light comes on as far as I know when I was messing around testing.

Just double checked and the lad who pulled the vacuum pipe of did not even put a blanking tube with a block end. ;( Thing is I get no engine management lights on and nothing showing on the computer. Its strange.

I will strip the turbo down next week after I finish the decorating here..lol

 

[AndyStobbs]

There would'nt be a major problem with not plugging the vac line on a diesel as its not going to cause an air leak into engine.

 

[dannyp]

if you stated the engine code would be abel to give you more of an idea but usally these engine's dropping into limp mode is due to overboosting, shouldn't have turbo problems really uinless it's a 150 bhp. its more likely vac line related very possobly the littel o rings in the connector where all vac lines go into a black box or a split pipe.

will cause havoc but easy fix once found

 

[normspanners]

Cheers Dai

and a bit of spirited driving

will check out the forte site
I have run mine on some 'other' fuel mix with some spirited driving, love that expression, well mine saw some 'spirited driving', I thrashed the b*******s off it! turbo was probably glowing, Such Fun ! but now is running fine, I will just have to ban the wife or block off the last three gears, I am going to run with my diag reader ( 'on live data') connected and monitor the boost . I am sure the fault lies with the turbo as it is so inconsistant and a faulty valve or leaking pipes would remain faulty mine started with the wife driving even though the engine was warm, as the car accel uphill it would cut to limp, I then found cycling ign 'cured' it. until the cold weather hit then it got steadilly worse but I have never had a dtc.
Thanks again every body

 

[normspanners]

Just double checked and the lad who pulled the vacuum pipe of did not even put a blanking tube with a block end

I am embarassedI have just taken the engine cover off and mine does NOT have feed back pot, with myself but I HAVE blank gasketed mine years ago. I have been racking my mind as to why I thought mine had one, then I realised did the same with my step sons dads, same car, same colour but slightly younger and that did have the pot, I had told him to clamp the vac hose over the phone which he did but then came back on to say the light came on immediately. so I blank gasketed his and reset the dfc's n it was fine, but did another one for a customer after that, and that put the light on after 50mls!
I am VERY sorry for misleading anyone as I felt sure it was mine.
as you get older they all seem to merge into one, even the colours, but maybe thats the eyesight thats going also !
Anyway went to mine this morning -5 started fine and ran fine I had a call out, to a flat tyre, so didnt have time to put dtc reader on , ran it steady and steadilly increased revs exactly as last week when she had limped
and this morn it was fine, so think that at the moment mine is 'cured'

 

[normspanners]

Fao uk racer

FAO UK RACER
I got called out today to another garage to help diagnose vw golf, 2.0 pd the garage specialises in clutches and gearboxes they had fitted dual mass and clutch about 3mths ago, and now the guy thought the flywheel was at fault again due to it vibrating and lumpy and going into limp, as he was excelerating uphill, This sounds familiar I thought so I put DTCR on it and guess what ---p0234 overboost---- but he had similar sound /feeling as yours, but he has a new clutch and flywheel so not likely to be that. Now mine has been fine for days but had a strange flat feeling but no limp today checked for codes p1557 overboost so maybe mine isnt cured?
was reading one vw specialist down south has put in a bay especially for vvt problems he is getting that many !!

 

[ukracer]

FAO UK RACER
I got called out today to another garage to help diagnose vw golf, 2.0 pd the garage specialises in clutches and gearboxes they had fitted dual mass and clutch about 3mths ago, and now the guy thought the flywheel was at fault again due to it vibrating and lumpy and going into limp, as he was excelerating uphill, This sounds familiar I thought so I put DTCR on it and guess what ---p0234 overboost---- but he had similar sound /feeling as yours, but he has a new clutch and flywheel so not likely to be that. Now mine has been fine for days but had a strange flat feeling but no limp today checked for codes p1557 overboost so maybe mine isnt cured?
was reading one vw specialist down south has put in a bay especially for vvt problems he is getting that many !!

Thanks for the update. The weather has slowed things down here. Although I have almost finished the decorating I was doing . Bad thing is the owners of the units we rent are trying to claw back as many as they can so I gota empty one of mine. (means more **** in the way until I can sell some stuff off) Hopefully sometime this week or maybe next weekend In can get my turbo out of the car to take a look.

Keep us informed if they solve that Golf please.

 

[AndyStobbs]

Sorry to revive this thread, but as it was kind of orbiting around a possible turbo problem, I though I would post with a recent experience I had of a VGT.

It was on a 2.0 tdci jaguar x type (with the ford engine), and like so many others was reporting the turbo actuator control fault. Think it was P132A, rather than P132B, anyway, I removed the control module to check for broken wires inside (a common failure point), and found non.
With the module removed, I manually moved the linkage and found a deffinite step in the movement. The control module can pick up on this by virtue of increased current.

I removed the turbo and decided to investigate, following the removal of much soot, and a good cleaning generally of the VGT blades and moving parts, the step was completely gone, and the action free-er generally than it had been before.
Re-fitted turbo, etc etc, and fault cured.
So the ford VGT's respond well to being cleaned.

 

[the snooper]

the earlier mk3 diesel mondeo had waste gate problems in that they seized up and left you with a powerless engine

 

[normspanners]

Sorry to revive this thread, but as it was kind of orbiting around a possible turbo problem, I though I would post with a recent experience I had of a VGT.

It was on a 2.0 tdci jaguar x type (with the ford engine), and like so many others was reporting the turbo actuator control fault. Think it was P132A, rather than P132B, anyway, I removed the control module to check for broken wires inside (a common failure point), and found non.
With the module removed, I manually moved the linkage and found a deffinite step in the movement. The control module can pick up on this by virtue of increased current.

I removed the turbo and decided to investigate, following the removal of much soot, and a good cleaning generally of the VGT blades and moving parts, the step was completely gone, and the action free-er generally than it had been before.
Re-fitted turbo, etc etc, and fault cured.
So the ford VGT's respond well to being cleaned.

excellent info Andy,
Guess what I have a jag/ford with limited power been looking at it for about 12 months on and off, but the guy lives mainly in spain so only get to see it when he is home, no dfc's, I've cleaned the inlet manifold, egr,then blanked egr then got dfc ,decat'ed etc etc but I recon its still about 20 bhp down.