TIG welder - anyone seen these before?

[matt1978]

A lot of consumables do come from China and its down to price and price alone but Fronius make all there own torches in Austria and they manage to sell there contact tips for over a £1 a time. If you can attach a feature/benefit to the guy with the cheque book, sometimes he won't make all the decisions based on price. But in the Binzel copy market, its now so cut throat, companies don't have a choice but to outsource from China, as Weldequipe says, its a matter of staying in Business.

The most frustrating thing from our side (people in the trade) who get to see cost prices etc, is that originally people started sourcing cheaper goods from the eastern block to become more profitable, then some bright spark of a sales man decided to give some of the extra profit margin away to take business from his competition, so the competition then have to source cheaper alternatives just to compete, before you know it, eastern block sourced stuff isn't as attractive any more so they look for the next cheapest thing which is/was Chinese/Indian. The stupid thing is, they have never bought consumables so cheap, but they are making far less profit now than they was 5-10 yrs ago. They have just bought bigger turnover and all the problems of debt risks and hassle that goes with it.

 

[weldequip]

If 99.99% of welding distributors could get a quid a tip Matt they'd be cock-a-hoop! Fact is, as you say, they work for the same margin on a vastly reduced cost price. End result... deflation which is a far more scary prospect than inflation.
Any of you out there that care to read beyond page 3 of the sun will know what I'm on about, and it's happening... now!
weldequip

 

[lexi]

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Alex

 

[matt1978]

Any of you out there that care to read beyond page 3 of the sun will know what I'm on about, and it's happening... now!
weldequip

You mean there IS more than 3 pages??


Actually I think the list was £1.60 each for M10. But they sell em, its not no where near the same volume as Binzel types tho.

 

[weldequip]

Good one Alex... they are indeed, for the better in the less prosperous parts, and much worse for the more prosperous parts!
Let's face it... we've had it too good for too long in the West.
These half-wits in France at the moment striking & bleeting about pension benefits etc. (much like British industry in the 70's) are in for a rude awakening!
weldequip

 

[irondarren]

times are a changing lexi, and most likely not for the better. Wont take the chinese long to work out they can sell direct and cut out the middle man. In fact its already started happening on Ebay with much of the chinese stuff coming direct. Doesn't help the few chinese companies that try to produce reasonable quality stuff either, there normal routes would be to link up with UK importers and distributors to provide service back up. But if there are so few distributors left because of direct imports that avenue will be closed

 

[weldequip]

You mean there IS more than 3 pages??

Never get past the back page of the Star Matt so I wouldn't know!

weldequip

 

[matt1978]

Anyone have any ideas what'll happen once all our manufacturing (whats left of it) has finally gone from the UK and the west in general? And we are reliant on importing everything from China and India? I wonder if they'll be like the Russians are now that they know people are reliant on them for gas/oil and start pushing prices up and cutting demand to suit themselves, once they realise they have the monopoly.

It'll be alright for a few years because we can all be happy consumers buying things more cheaply (myself included lexi ) driving round our big shiny new retail parks where factories and businesses once stood, spending money. Sh*t don't we need jobs to earn the money to be able to go and shop in these big retail parks?? Just a thought.

 

[dutchman]

I’m an economist by trade, but don’t read many newspapers since I find them boring (and have a temporary reading handicap, this forum I read with readplease). A big investor once said that you can learn more about a countries economic situation by paying a visit to the brothel, and talking to the people there than by reading the newspaper. I really liked that advice.
It is not so much the deflation risk that worries me though. I’m more afraid of inflation.
As I said before, the earth is limited. If everyone would consume as much resources as the Americans we would need 5 earths!!!

 

[matt1978]

A big investor once said that you can learn more about a countries economic situation by paying a visit to the brothel, and talking to the people there than by reading the newspaper. I really liked that advice.

Our rugby tour next year is to Amsterdam I think..........i'll tell the missus I am doing some research into the economy, while i'm there

 

[dutchman]

Anyone have any ideas what'll happen once all our manufacturing (whats left of it) has finally gone from the UK and the west in general? And we are reliant on importing everything from China and India? I wonder if they'll be like the Russians are now that they know people are reliant on them for gas/oil and start pushing prices up and cutting demand to suit themselves, once they realise they have the monopoly.

It'll be alright for a few years because we can all be happy consumers buying things more cheaply (myself included lexi ) driving round our big shiny new retail parks where factories and businesses once stood, spending money. Sh*t don't we need jobs to earn the money to be able to go and shop in these big retail parks?? Just a thought.

Since I just confessed my previous confession I think I owe you an answer. We might be the poor ones for a while, work for slave salaries and then play the same game as the Chinese did. A bit extreme, but not completely impossible.
The Russian game is based on resource dependencie though. As long as we have poeple smart enough to buy and make stuff, the Chinese will have a hard time playing that game.

 

[weldequip]

i'll tell the missus I am doing some research into the economy, while i'm there

I'll join you if you don't mind Matt... and we can talk ourselves out of a job over a nice spliff!
weldequip

 

[matt1978]

I'll join you if you don't mind Matt... and we can talk ourselves out of a job over a nice spliff!
weldequip

Sound, things won't seem so bleak!

 

[lexi]

I'll join you if you don't mind Matt... and we can talk ourselves out of a job over a nice spliff!
weldequip

You two don`t have anything to worry about. People will always buy quality stuff. There is always a market for something that is better than ordinary.

Alex

 

[matt1978]

Yeah your right Alex, but Joe Public will all be on the dole and won't afford our wares.

 

[irondarren]

Funny a while ago the American's tried something a little naughty and protective over there steel industry, and Europe got upset, every one was accusing the US of being arrogant over it, but to be honest i could see there point and it was a very valid one. Protecting American Jobs, but of course our government is to busy protecting every one elses rights and jobs, and can be bothered with us, plebs

 

[dutchman]

Well, all is not lost yet. As long as people at Lorch and such companies can work out great ideas, patent them and sell them, the West can still make money.
But, if innovation were to dry up, or if the Chinese beat us on the front of innovation too and it would come down to the simple game of the cheapest producer, we may see serious problems. In which case the government might not even be able to pay the dole…...
By the way, I do think it is great that millions of Chinese and Indians have been lifted out of poverty. Even if it is to some extent at my expense, but I do like to maintain a nice standard of living.

 

[MrFluffy]

All well and good, except patents are blatently ignored in china, in fact most of the economic "miracle" they have performed has been done by thieving IP from the west. A condition of trading with the west has been that they make definate progress to respect IP, and on that front they are being dragged screaming to the table repeatedly.

If china then starts to innovate (and culturally Im not sure they are even close to being able to think off the peg to do so) then we will be in trouble.

 

[oddball90]

The problem is most workers in China and India are not coming out of poverty. Big corporations and triads are making the money.

 

[lexi]

The problem is most workers in China and India are not coming out of poverty. Big corporations and triads are making the money.

Probably true. Very much like we were 100 yrs ago. Victorian bosses getting rich while workers in cotton mills and steelworks had a poor time of it also polluting their country and others in the process. It is interesting and all part of Industrial Evolution and they have to go through theirs.

Their changes will happen faster though. It was always going to be an imbalance when these countries finally awoke. The Govt aint too worried they take 20per cent on every container coming into country. Not bad really as a form of sub contracting goes.

The question of taxing heavily on imports? It`s been done long ago and it doesn`t work in a free market. 30 yrs ago the Italian gov. put a huge tax on Jap bikes over 500cc to try and protect the likes of Laverda Ducati Moto Guzzi and Bennelli. Where does that leave the Italians who actually want a big jap bike? Disadvantaged.

Alex