Asking for a Pay Rise at work.

[Engineer1964]

I think decent staff are very very hard to find, Most small company's like my own would willingly pay very good wages for decent staff.

However most decent guys are either running company's them selfs or snapped up like lightning, Most employees look for Motivated and conscientious staff, most staff think there like that, however Id say 80% are not.

My thoughts exactly, Snowcat, Do you think that if you decided to go the opposite way and pay less in wages that you would retain those good employees or do you think they would go? and as a small business owner would that be more effective Money wise or a bad move?

The company where i work at the moment are paying over the odds, In fact VERY good wages, and the level of turnover of the work produced and quality it far better than what i've seen else where.

Forgot to mention everyone at that place is self employed, They don't have anyone on the books so to speak.

They say when you work for yourself you have a level of good will or reputation that you need to maintain, If a guy that works for himself is always busy and always in work then his reputation must be excellent as opposed to a guy with little or no work, or one that has problems staying within a job.

Some employers have latched onto this and can see if they pay good and decent money for self employed staff and ltd companies to do their work they will be getting better value for money as opposed to someone paying a quid or so over the minimum wage for the same job.

 

[the snooper]

i think people want a pay rise now because everything but wages has increased and people are finding it hard now, wheather they actually deserve one or not wont be on most peoples minds, making life easier will be

 

[Wedg1e]

In about 4 weeks time I'll have been with my company for 19 years, which has to be as near as dammit a job for life these days (and when I started I thought that if I got 6 months to 2 years out of it, I'd be doing well ).
That said, I haven't had a payrise worth a light in 10 years, just the occasional 'cost of living' cobblers, maybe 2.5%, and that not every year.
I earn about the same now as the guy whose role I took over when he resigned to go elsewhere for more money - 10 years ago, that is.
Bizarrely, the same guy rang me last week to offer me a job doing less than I do now for 8 grand a year more, but I don't want various hassles that go with it.
As it happens there are things happening with the company that I can't discuss on an open forum, but I hear that everyone is due a terms and conditions review, so I'll be going in there armed with a figure several thousand higher than I'm on now and if they meet me halfway I'll consider it a result.
Anything less and I will seriously think the p155 has been taken for quite long enough. We are a profitable company, the bosses don't shirk on the country houses, classic sportscars, villas in Spain, motorhomes and cabin cruisers they buy so there ought to be a bit more reward down at shop-floor level - especially for long-service staff.
I still get the same 20 days holiday as when I started, they cancelled the Death in Service benefits plan and we have no healthcare or guaranteed sickness pay. Let me just remind myself of the incentives to stay...?

 

[garethp]

My last job - a single 2% rise in 4.5 years, lots of 'encouragement' in being told times were hard, we should all be grateful we have jobs etc. The only way I got a raise was to save the company money - my rise was half what they saved...

At the same time the boss decides to swap his 18month old Insignia for a new Audi A5 and we were totally snowed under with work and taking more staff on!

Best bit was when I left I was owed two days holiday and apparently I cant have them as I should feel lucky the boss let me leave!

I've always found a decent employer appreciates their staff and shouldnt need approached for a rise.

 

[KemppiFrog]

:

I've always found a decent employer appreciates their staff and shouldnt need approached for a rise.

That is how it should be, not sure if it works in most cases.

I have been SE for most of my life, and from time to time it sounds nice to have not to worry about the problems of 'the boss' and just look forward to a nice pay packet at the end of the month/week. Not to mention the retirement package that I see many relaxing into.
Reality is the day to day coping. Which I hope is better than the 'wage slave' alternative.

Written with a couple of glasses of merlot under my belt...
KF

 

[Shox Dr]

That is how it should be, not sure if it works in most cases.

I have been SE for most of my life, and from time to time it sounds nice to have not to worry about the problems of 'the boss' and just look forward to a nice pay packet at the end of the month/week. Not to mention the retirement package that I see many relaxing into.
Reality is the day to day coping. Which I hope is better than the 'wage slave' alternative.

Written with a couple of glasses of merlot under my belt...
KF

Totally agree. Although mine is borne of Newcastle Brown

Some people slog their arses off, building a pension for their retirement, in the hope it's all going to be worth it. When in reality they may need see the day to enjoy it.

 

[snowcat]

My thoughts exactly, Snowcat, Do you think that if you decided to go the opposite way and pay less in wages that you would retain those good employees or do you think they would go? and as a small business owner would that be more effective Money wise or a bad move?

.

I don't think more Money makes a bad employee good TBH or visa versa I think you know someone decent from the start, I only ever need to employee on a casual basis and I'm lucky that It tends to be more pooling Labour from other small company's or getting people I know who are self employed to fill the gaps, taking someone full time on the books would not be viable for someone like myself, Id rather see the whole country self employed TBH.

Among Friends the term "looked after" is used to describe valued employees, Casual workers, Self employed labour even good sub contractors. Its not just the pay packet thats reflected It also means your help them out where you can, as a Nod to the extra work they put in.

We are a profitable company, the bosses don't shirk on the country houses, classic sportscars, villas in Spain, motorhomes and cabin cruisers they buy so there ought to be a bit more reward down at shop-floor level - especially for long-service staff.
I still get the same 20 days holiday as when I started, they cancelled the Death in Service benefits plan and we have no healthcare or guaranteed sickness pay. Let me just remind myself of the incentives to stay...?

But probably the reason they are profitable and can afford to buy what they wish is because at some point they have risked a helluva allot and worked bloody hard, anyone can start there own business.

When I first started I was working a night shift and then working during the day within my own business, I couldn't afford to draw more than a pittance in wages for several years, I get no Holiday pay, no health care or sickness pay, Its not uncommon to push a 100 hr working week even now.

 

[brightspark]

When I first started I was working a night shift and then working during the day within my own business, I couldn't afford to draw more than a pittance in wages for several years, I get no Holiday pay, no health care or sickness pay, Its not uncommon to push a 100 hr working week even now.

get the fiddle out its all doom and gloom working 4 yourself . all the bad points but never tell the good ones along with subsidies company vehicles and a few other perks i wouldnt mention

 

[Wedg1e]

But probably the reason they are profitable and can afford to buy what they wish is because at some point they have risked a helluva allot and worked bloody hard, anyone can start there own business.

Granted, but they also rely on people taking on whatever's thrown at them and often working similarly hard, or outside their 'comfort zone', or whatever... without which the job wouldn't get done and money would not be made. So a little recognition to those who get dragged along for the ride wouldn't come amiss.

For example, and ignoring the fact that I knew from day 1 I'd be working with radioactive materials, I've also had to work in confined spaces (never asked if I was claustrophobic); up on 45 foot cherry-pickers (never asked if I had vertigo); travel to and work in Saudi Arabia, including having lumps of concrete thrown at the vehicle I was sat in (never asked if I minded going abroad) - oh, and for the same money, and doing 12 hour days instead of my standard hours; I also taught myself AutoCAD at home and use that to save them *****-knows how much money in draughtsman's fees; taught myself to weld and use that (and my own gear) to save them *****-knows how much in fabrication costs; I get paid a flat salary that ignores the 8, 9 and 10PM finishes when I get back from a 320 mile drive AFTER a day's work.
And that's just the ones I can think of AND that's just me: most of the other staff have similarly put-out, from the family man who REALLY doesn't like being away from home but still does it to get the job done, to guys whose job title is 'bench electronics technician' but who find themselves hanging on a wire, 50 feet down a 4 foot square shaft, hosing crap off pipes: how in the hell is that a realistic expectation of staff?

 

[Shox Dr]

Wedgie, The saying springs to mind:

They will always flog a willing horse.


Problem now is you are too far down the line. Stop doing what you do and you will instantly become the biggest **** in the world. Either put up and shut up, or move on

 

[christchurch welder]

Alternative Options - Jobs Abroad

When looking for pay rises its wise to have sourced some alternative options and the pay rates available whether its at home or abroad.
Though it is important to handle negotiations carefully and not in a threatening way, its important to show you mean business and have done your research on:
1. Options in UK
2. Options abroad - New Zealand- rebuild of Christchurch following earthquake last year is presenting alot of opportunities for experienced Heavy Steel welders with site experience.
Last advice go slowly and do your research so you have a alternative option if its a no go.

Whens the right time? Now, next month when? To be honest if you ask a boss when the right time for a pay rise is, the chances of him saying never, has to be 100%

Someone asked me on my forum about how they could get a rise from their workplace so with a bit of reseach and digging i've come up with 10 ideas, which i think would improve chances of getting a rise, so here goes..

Firstly you never have to be embarassed to ask for a pay rise, if your boss don't give you a pay rise and you don't ask your never going to get one so i've drawn up a 10 point plan which i hope you'll use to see if you can get your rise ;D

1. Ask yourself why you deserve a rise

You are unlikely to convince anyone you're worth more unless you can find concrete arguments to back up your request. Firstly, reread your job description. If you can show your boss you've gone beyond the call of duty by taking on extra work and responsibilities then you stand a much better chance of winning him or her over.

If your contribution doesn't so easily translate to pounds and pence, think about what else you have done to improve the business. Have you helped with the smooth running of the department or introduced any new ideas or working practices?

2. Know your worth

Do some research to establish exactly what you ought to be getting paid. Check job sites on the internet and newspaper ads for comparable rates of pay for your position. Trade magazines frequently carry out salary surveys.

A word of warning: if you're going to compare your wage against that of someone else at your own firm make sure you check the company policy on pay confidentiality.

Many firms have strict rules on revealing staff pay So before you begin telling your boss you ought to be on the same wage as one of your colleagues who you happen to know is earning more, first of all ensure that information is not privileged.

3. Put pen to paper

Before meeting with your boss it might be a good idea to provide a written copy of your case in advance, a written document will give a clear idea of your arguments, which your boss could then use to plead your case with senior management.

You need to look at it from your boss's point of view. They must justify giving you extra money to their superiors, so if you give them something in writing they can refer to it is a definite plus.

4. Don't ambush your boss

No employer is going to take kindly to being put on the spot, so make sure your boss has plenty of warning of your intentions. Request a performance review and make it clear you would like to talk about pay.

5. Think about your timing

Picking the right time is crucial. First thing on a Monday or late on a Friday are definite no-noes. One survey picked out Wednesday as the day on which employers are most likely to be receptive to a pay request, but think about the rhythms of your workplace before you make your choice.

Try to schedule a meeting at a time when you know your boss will not be too busy and will have the time to give your suggestions their full attention.

It is also important to bear in mind wider trends at your company. If your firm has just announced a raft of job cuts then perhaps you ought to think twice, However, if company profits have gone through the roof, maybe now is the time to get in that request.

It is also a good tactic to arrange your meeting well in advance of budgeting so that your boss can factor it in.

6. Be realistic

Demanding your salary be doubled is unlikely to get you anywhere other than through the exit door. Bear in mind the research you have done into comparable salaries in other organisations, and that your boss does not have to agree to giving you any more money. If you want your request to be taking seriously you need to pitch it right.

7. Learn the art of negotiation

The key to negotiating is confidence. Be sure of your arguments, present your case clearly and succinctly and, most of all, don't be afraid of failure. As long as you are polite and reasonable you have nothing to fear. If you handle it gracefully and make your case well, you won't be left in a weaker position by asking.

8. Have a back-up plan

Just because your boss has turned down a pay increase doesn't mean you can't ask for non-financial benefits as an alternative. Think about what you might accept instead. Extra holidays, a Allowed to do private work in spare time, or increased training and codings, or learning a different welding disapline altogether for example

9. Keep on smiling

If your boss turns down your request, don't resort to tears or throw a tantrum. It's definitely a bad idea to make threats or issue ultimatums as you might miss out on subsequent opportunities. When you've had time to think clearly about your position, you may decide the only way to achieve career progression and a pay rise is to move jobs - in that situation you may need a reference from your boss, so it is well worth keeping him or her on side

10. Work harder

It might sound like a no-brainer, but if after racking your brain the only good reason you can come up with for why you deserve a pay rise is that you'd really like one, then you should probably put the idea on hold. Instead, it might be time to knuckle down to some old-fashioned graft, or take on more responsibility around the workplace. That way, in six months or a year's time you can go back to your boss with a more legitimate case.

Hope that helps, and if anyone else has any tips add them here

 

[the snooper]

Granted, but they also rely on people taking on whatever's thrown at them and often working similarly hard, or outside their 'comfort zone', or whatever... without which the job wouldn't get done and money would not be made. So a little recognition to those who get dragged along for the ride wouldn't come amiss.

For example, and ignoring the fact that I knew from day 1 I'd be working with radioactive materials, I've also had to work in confined spaces (never asked if I was claustrophobic); up on 45 foot cherry-pickers (never asked if I had vertigo); travel to and work in Saudi Arabia, including having lumps of concrete thrown at the vehicle I was sat in (never asked if I minded going abroad) - oh, and for the same money, and doing 12 hour days instead of my standard hours; I also taught myself AutoCAD at home and use that to save them *****-knows how much money in draughtsman's fees; taught myself to weld and use that (and my own gear) to save them *****-knows how much in fabrication costs; I get paid a flat salary that ignores the 8, 9 and 10PM finishes when I get back from a 320 mile drive AFTER a day's work.
And that's just the ones I can think of AND that's just me: most of the other staff have similarly put-out, from the family man who REALLY doesn't like being away from home but still does it to get the job done, to guys whose job title is 'bench electronics technician' but who find themselves hanging on a wire, 50 feet down a 4 foot square shaft, hosing crap off pipes: how in the hell is that a realistic expectation of staff?

its official you are a MUG and have been taken for a ride, do you think for 1 minute that if you hadnt been daft enough to do all that, that they wouldnt have paid someone else to do it ? they will do whatever it takes to make the bussiness a sucess including the hiring of extra staff if needed.

the simple answer is do what you are paid to do nothing more nothing less

 

[stuvy]

thing is wedgie i bet you get a stink load of money for working saudi to offset the conditions

 

[Wedg1e]

thing is wedgie i bet you get a stink load of money for working saudi to offset the conditions

Er...no. Last time I was out there, we got £20 a day 'overseas allowance'. But then we were working 12 hour days (there's not much else to do) and £20 didn't even equate to the extra hours per day.

We were out there on the day the combined forces went into Iraq to finally get Saddam out (2003?)... parked outside an office block in Khobar when someone dropped a football-sized piece of concrete onto our truck. It put a dent in the roof, just above my head, that you could have sat in.
I finished the trip and have declined to go back ever since. They never even tried to offer me more money.
I never wanted to go, was never asked if I minded going, it was just taken for granted... "Bring your passport in so we can get a visa in it, you're off to Saudi next week", that sort of thing.

 

[Wedg1e]

the simple answer is do what you are paid to do nothing more nothing less

Bit difficult when they define your job as 'whatever needs doing', but I get the idea
With the reshuffle I will definitely be wanting definitions and limits setting.

 

[Dev]

Quite a while ago I worked for a company who seemed to ignore pay rises despite their investors in people award rubbish.

So I applied and got a new job which payed £8k a year more. They never even suggested trying to encourage me to stay.

The irony is they had to pay my replacement almost as much as my new salary and it'd take god knows how long to get as familiar with our systems.

Maybe they were just happy to be rid of me

 

[Premiershipman]

I struggle to think of any really good employers these days, whilst my situation is a bit different being in an office based job, we still get short shrift on raises etc.

The management have been exhausting the phrase 'well if you don't like it, there are plenty of other people out there who will have your job.'

This has been rebutted with the comments of 'If we go then you will need to advertise the role, take time to interview the candidates, train them up to do the role (I have been administering the sql databases here for 8 years and I still don' know everything) and hope they have the same low level of sickness and trustworthiness that I have.

Not many companies these days pay people what they are worth unless they are 'in with the boss' like a few people at my job who can do no wrong.

At the moment my pay is below what I should be getting but with a wife and 3 kids to support I am just sitting taking the money but I am not exactly going to work my b*ll*cks off every day for them.

Shady

 

[Wallace]

What you want and what you are worth are seldom the same depending on whose eyes you are viewed through. When asking for a pay rise I try and look at my worth to the company from an employers point of view, sometimes even I have not liked what I see!

I have done the "I'll leave" bit a couple of times before when it seemed justified but only when backed up by another job to go to with a resignation letter in my pocket. The last time I did this and it was blatantly obvious we were going nowhere I handed the letter over and the look on his face was a picture! He scuttled off to see his boss and came back with the old "we'll see what we can do" speech so I took the other job.