front to rear engine conversion

[seanc]

Anyone on here have any experience with this ? I have a spare shell and i am considering giving it a bash, mostly for the welding/fab experience over anything else ! Ive seen it done a few times by using a second front clip and basically welding it into the back of the car.
Im looking at making a custom frame in the back that i can mount all the oem front running gear onto. I have stripped out the rear and done some measuring up although it looks like i will have to cut the rear frame rails at the rear archs and fabricate new ones which I will mount the suspension and engine to. Im hoping to utilise as many oem parts as possible to make future repairs/servicing etc. easier.

to anyone who has done this kind of thing before is there anything that you know now that you wish someone would have told you before ? As i said above this isnt intended to be a daily driver or anything more of a challenge to myself, although obviously if it worked well at the end of it that would be nice

 

[KemppiFrog]

You don't say what car.
Not what you are after but, mate put a Ciroen GS 1220 in the back of a Fiat 126. Used a Renault box. Then had to fit discs to the front, which was more work than the engine swop.
Result was V. Good, only the tyres gave it away.
Next up was a Lancia 2lt in another 126, not sure how that turned out.
We built a mid engined Alfa powered sports racer, but that was scratch built, so not much help.

 

[seanc]

Mid 90s civic coupe. From preliminary measurements I think I can get it in without cutting into the passenger compartment which will be good for the stealth look

 

[Fazerruss]

If doing major structural changes, altering wheel base ect then you may need to put it through an IVA test to make it road legal.

 

[tigler]

Anything can be done and has but front to rear is the wrong way around !
Rear engines, unless mid mounted, are engineering wrongness !!

 

[KemppiFrog]

Anything can be done and has but front to rear is the wrong way around !
Rear engines, unless mid mounted, are engineering wrongness !!

Quite, better tell Porsche

(but I agree completely, they can't get their head out of the original Beetle's rear end)

Actually, it sounds mid engined, bit like the MG-F. Getting the weight distribution and handling right is going to be a bigger prob than moving the engine.

 

[plantlife]

Make it RWD, it seems the most popluar conversion at the moment. Simply, because its easier to do.

 

[tigler]

Quite, better tell Porsche

(but I agree completely, they can't get their head out of the original Beetle's rear end)

Actually, it sounds mid engined, bit like the MG-F. Getting the weight distribution and handling right is going to be a bigger prob than moving the engine.

Thats the problem, they've dug themselves a marketing hole and can't climb out of it. The modern 911's do work quite well but after SO much development, they should but how much better could they make a car if they weren't stuck with that engine behind the axle nonsense ?! Oh, but wait, they have and it's called the Cayman, sh1t name, good car ! They won't however give it as much power as the 911, wonder why ?!
My favourite Porsches are actually the front engine variety, the 928, a superb car, the 924 Carrera GT, the homologation turbo racer on the road and the 968 Club Sport.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Tigler
A few years ago, Porsche were in the doldrums and they got a new man in to sort things out. He figured that their clientel were 911 fans, so chopped the other good cars and concentrated on the rear engined line and the Boxter (another dumb name)and back to profit. The 924 was a bitza of VW bits and overpriced. The rear mounted box still had the lugs from being bolted to the passat engine...
The only reason the modern 911 are not so scarey is the electronics.

 

[tigler]

The Carrera GT was a quite special 924 though I can think of other supposedly special cars that use the parts bin, Dodge Viper for one and lets not mention TVR ! Porsche are lifestyle (yuk !!) products now, mainly purchased by the ignorant, only interested in looking good and impressing their friends !
Personally, I'll stick to my Evo 6, pushes out 450 BHP and it would need to be a very special 911 to show it a clean pair of heels in straight line, put bends in the road and the Porsche would kill itself in the attempt ! Given the money I could extract a comfortable 750 BHP from it !!

 

[hotrodder]

Bunch of girls . How did manufacturers turn FWD shopping trolleys into hot hatches? They balanced the vegan dullness that is understeer by designing in a bit of lift off oversteer, something that rear engine/rwd layout has always done well. If 911's had never been 'scarey' i doubt they'd have become icons and the 928 would probably have succeded in replacing 'em

Not specific to a rear engine conversion, just applicable to any major mods... when you've thought through all the design/fabrication stuff and got a list/plan of what's involved you'll find that you've forgotten half of what's needed (similar to the restoration rule that rust is always several times worst than it appears to be). Half of what you've forgotten to consider beforehand will be fiddly small/minor stuff that consumes FAR more time and effort than the big bits. Gear linkage for example could potentially be far from easy to get right (as in nice to use)

If it's more about the challange than a desire to own a rear engined civic then what about adding another FWD complete front end in the back for some full on forwards/backwards/crabing madness... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBiEWWQiRJU

 

[tigler]

Problem is, as soon as you start to design around or compensate for original concept flaws, it becomes a compromise that is slower than a good concept and design !
The origins of rear engine for Porsche were from the Beetle, it was rear engined for practical reasons, not for going fast. QED.

 

[stuvy]

forget about 911's chaps as they are crap.

I personally would go along the lines of hotrodders plan, but with two accord V6's one front one back then turbo when the funds allow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzdAi5Wa3vc
Big dub 2.8v6 turbo front, 2.9v6 turbo rear. There is a lupo with the same engine setup too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB5zFkXuy1g
iv seen this car at all the ford shows and it really does shift.


But, If your gonna put time and ultimately money into something do something thats never been done before or do it once do it right!!!!!!

Iv built kit cars to race, baja bug from a stock beetle, modified fords(ka RS Turbo) loads of land rovers and modified bikes(on and off road ones) etc etc iv always put too much money into them and never got any money back fro the work iv put into them

 

[seanc]

Accord never had a v6 was only legend and nsx. Legends only came in autos and the nsx engine price wise is out of the question. I would imagine twin engine although more evenly balanced would be horrible to drive.

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

Tigler, arent the evo's only a 2l engine?

 

[stuvy]

Tigler, arent the evo's only a 2l engine?

yepp they are 20ltr 4cyl turbo's

I knew they did a v6 honda as my mate had one

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classif...03aa/radius/1500/keywords/v6/page/1?logcode=p

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Acc...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2a1dc3243c


Did you ever do that roof chop on the CRX or del sol?

 

[seanc]

Nope stripped the shell a bit more and it was pretty rotten and looked like it had taken a few hits in its life. Decided it wasn't the best base
Forgot about those accords. Pretty sure there all still autos though.

 

[stuvy]

pretty much anything can be converted to manual with a bit of research

 

[tigler]

Tigler, arent the evo's only a 2l engine?

Indeed they are, the legend that is the 4G63T !!
I know of bored & stroked, 2.4 ltr ones producing over 1000 BHP !!

 

[seanc]

I know there's adapter plates available for j series Honda v6 to Porsche and vw gearboxs. The engine spins the oposite way to most other engines but you could flip everything round to have the engine inboard making it mid engined.
I'd rather stick to using off the shelf Honda parts though to be honest.