Acetylene to be banned?

[chunkolini]

Has anybody heard anything about this?
A mate who is generally not a bullshitter has just done his codings in welding and while on the course he was told that acetylene is to be banned. What?
he was not sure if it to be a blanket ban or just from private owners. The reckoning is that it is due to security isues and potential for chaos by mad acetylene bombers.
Have people been telling him porky pies? sounds a bit suspicious to me.
Another rumour is that there has been no acetylene available in Britain for a year due to fire at an acetylene plant and the authorities refusing to allow them to reopen. I dont believe this one as I bought a new bottle a few months back.

A puzzled Chunkolini.

 

[Shox Dr]

There was a fire at one of the plants, and since then small bottles had been hard to get hold of. As for it been banned, there are fewer and fewer sites (power stations etc) allowing the use.

 

[chunkolini]

That explains why I could oly get hold of a huge bottle.
I admit I would be careful of having it lying around the place being used by any Tom Dick and Harry.
So is it going out of use rather than being banned?

 

[Shox Dr]

From my understanding, yes.

 

[madkayaker]

Our local depot as not expecting any more bottles in till end of June when we spoke to the rep the other week. Apparently there has been some problems at one of the other plants as well. How many people really need to use it these days as if using just for heating propane is fine and how many gas weld these days?

 

[Sean]

last time i was in BOC chap came in for porta pack bottle, there were none in stock. BOC said they were in the process of re valving all their bottles for side entry valves for some reason. BOC explained that it was taking longer than expected - chap wasn't too pleased as it meant he was going to have to get a few sets of gauges as he had a roofing firm and a few sets for lead welding.

 

[Engineer1964]

The problem is that when there is a fire the exclusion zone is at least 200 metres and the cooling off period is at least 2 days before its safe to move again. a few years ago a Transit van belonging to the fire brigade garage caught fire on the A12 in essex which saw the road shut for most of the day in both directions.

The issue with this gas has been going on for years, with insurance comapanies refusing to insure businesses that have not found an alternative, London transport have gone one stage further and have written to their tennants that rent premisises from them (Railway arches, and lock ups) that they will get evicted unless they use an alternative (Propane) This happen in 2007, so i guess its an ongoing issue.

Nowdays if the police stop you they will check your Car insurance to see if your covered for transporting Acetylene, most people cannot normall afford the increase in premiums which is normally 2-3 times more than a normal car policy, therefore they are driving without insurance which is a fine and points on your licence as well as driving a car in a dangerous condition.

I use propane, its cheaper, Safer and cuts and heats as well as Acetylene, i never use it for welding.

 

[tigler]

I suppose Propane must be less of a risk then, therefore safe to transport and store on site ?!

 

[Engineer1964]

I suppose Propane must be less of a risk then, therefore safe to transport and store on site ?!

Yes it is apparently, I couldn't afford the insurance on my unit when i told them i had acetylene, Changed to propane, almost halved my building insurance.

I guess alot of people do not say anything to their insurers and thus they could not have cover when something goes wrong. I know also that normal household insurance will not cover you for issues involving acetylene, so you really need to find out and if your only using it for heating up or cutting then save yourself some worry and go for Propane, I use a large 46kg bottle with oxygen, and a propane tip on the torch, works a treat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2amO0T3vkQ

 

[tigler]

Must be the cylinder pressure then.
This could be the reason I've noticed Safire Oxy/Acet torch sets going on ebay for peanuts !

 

[Engineer1964]

Must be the cylinder pressure then.
This could be the reason I've noticed Safire Oxy/Acet torch sets going on ebay for peanuts !

Its not the pressure its the fact that It burns at 3,300C, a temperature hotter than any other combination of fuel gases, meaning it can cut metal quickly and is extremely useful for welding, but VERY dangerous if in a fire.

Oxy/Acet torches are now cheap, just buy a new propane gas tip and you've got yourself a bargin

Ban enforced

It followed the death of welder Andrew Herd, 33, when acetylene he was transporting in the back of a van exploded in Wolsingham.

Three weeks after the incident, the Health and Safety Executive banned Mr Herd's employer, Ward Bros Plant Hire Ltd, of Darlington, from carrying the cylinders in closed vehicles.

In July 2007 Transport for London ordered businesses operating on its land to stop using the gas.



Acetylene caused huge damage in the Wolsingham explosion
A spokesman said: "For us, in a city with London's density, it can cause severe disruption."

He added a boom in construction over the past five years could account for the problems.

London Fire Brigade also believes this could be a factor. In 2007 the brigade dealt with twice as many call-outs involving the gas than in the previous year.

But a spokesman said new ways of tackling incidents, including the use of remotely-operated vehicles, had dramatically reduced the level of upheaval, partly by cutting the time the 200m cordon stays in place.

 

[blenkie1]

The acetylene shortage was due to a fire at a BOC filling plant at Bristol I think. BOC had two filling plants the other one at Bishop Auckland which when Linde took them over deceided to close the one at Bishop and only have the one plant! Good planning. BOC driver said at one point they were bringing bottles over from the continent to keep up with demand. The H&S were dragging the heels as well to re-open the plant making it worse. We moved to Air products just because we could not get any Acetylene from BOC

 

[brightspark]

Our local depot as not expecting any more bottles in till end of June when we spoke to the rep the other week. Apparently there has been some problems at one of the other plants as well. How many people really need to use it these days as if using just for heating propane is fine and how many gas weld these days?

i gas weld and allways will, may not be as fast but its neater and u dont have to grind the welds down as much

 

[brightspark]

i gas weld and allways will, may not be as fast but its neater and u dont have to grind the welds down as much

i hardly think the terrorists have anything to do with it are they going to ban diesel and nitram because its dangerous and can be used

 

[Robotstar5]

i gas weld and allways will, may not be as fast but its neater and u dont have to grind the welds down as much

As long as you can get the gas?

 

[brightspark]

As long as you can get the gas?

np

 

[mike os]

i think the bottom line as far as hse etc will prove to be the extreme energy of a potential explosion/release, and the relative instability of the gas in storage under adverse conditions.

that said, given the tens of thousands of people maimed, killed or otherwise injured in this country every year from acet related incidents.......... like most bullshite these days it is based more on that idiot response... precautionary principle... an idea developed by those incapable of rational and concidered thought rather than real world risk assessment.

Must admit i kind of agree with BS... for some work gas is and will probably remain a far superior method than any current alternative.

 

[dai]

Its not the pressure its the fact that It burns at 3,300C, a temperature hotter than any other combination of fuel gases, meaning it can cut metal quickly and is extremely useful for welding, but VERY dangerous if in a fire.

Oxy/Acet torches are now cheap, just buy a new propane gas tip and you've got yourself a bargin

it IS the pressure of acetylene thats the problem
go look on your bottle to see whats in it


15bar tops

 

[piman]

Hello all,

last time I needed an acetylene refill, my agent did not have any but told me to ring BOC directly. BOC delivered a refill in a couple of days, no delivery charge.
I don't do any cutting, just welding and brazing; I just hope this is just a rumour that it will no longer be available?
As far as insurance companies goes, when our insurance company's rep last came round he said we couldn't use a propane space heater (open flame) indoors. He then asked if we left it on at night when the premises were empty?

Alec

 

[tigler]

it IS the pressure of acetylene thats the problem
go look on your bottle to see whats in it


15bar tops

Seems strange to recall now that we were taught oxy/acet welding at school when I was a lad !!
We routinely sparked up and wasted loads of material in our clumsy attempts to produce something useful ! Also brazed with it and made acet bombs, which the teacher didn't find amusing ! Although he never stopped us using it, even then !