Rivet Rivet

[chunkolini]

No I am not turning into a frog.
I have been asked to make a model of an airliner for display at Farnborough.
Initially I turned the job down, reckoning that model making is not my thing. The customer persuaded me to do and I have come up with an idea for a sculptural version of the plane which he likes.
I am planning on making the bulk of it in this style.

Making the bulk of the body as a skeletal structure.
I have been asked to make some parts of it in sheet metal, no problem using steel, but he wants some aluminium involved.
I am thinking of rivetting it on, but standard pop rivets leave a hideous lump on the inside of the join, are there any rivets that leave a better looking finish on the inside of the joint?
I dont mine buying a special tool for the job as long as it is not mega bucks.
Could be a nice side job for when I get tired of other stuff.
Cheers, Chunko'.

 

[drjim]

How big are the ribs, could you not just fix the aluminium to them directly? If they are tubular you could hide the rivet mess inside, or just tap holes???

Jim

 

[chunkolini]

The model will be about 1.2m long, the ribs will be solid bar 4-5mm? not sure yet.
I am thinking of the wings and tail being in aluminium, so I might be able to make them hollow and have the rivet ends inside.
I am just at the thinking about it stage, and will be drawing up rough sketch plans over the weekend.
I think it would be good to use rivets somewhere in the structure, even cosmetically as they use a few of them in the aerospace industry, but I want them to look good from both sides.
The rivet thing has cropped up a few times over the year and I think this a good reason to see if there a product that does what I want to achieve.
I wont be abe to use hot fitted rivets or ones that need bashing from the back.

 

[Pete.]

Pop rivets hold quite well in blind holes you know. Might have to experiment with the hole size to find a nice fit but I've done it many times.

 

[DuffyBB]

If its just to attach sheet to the structure...could it not be bonded on?

 

[chunkolini]

Blind holes? problem is it will be an open structure so people will be able to see inside it.
Dont fancy 'bonding' it together.
I have been asked to use rivets if possible, I think the plane fiends have a bit of a rivet fetish.I have had a browse around the internet thing and found this, a so called rivet squeezer http://www.aetools.co.uk/product-rivet-squeezers-squeezer-sets-accessories-usatco-hand-901.php a bit on the pricy side but it looks as though it might do what I want.
Anybody ever used anything like this?

 

[MattF]

About the only way I can think of is old style metal rivets and forms/punches. Might also be worth checking out the Avdel stuff and seeing what type of rivets they use. They were quite widely used by either the Forces or the aero industry, if I recall, so they may be a more specialised, neater riveting system.

 

[Shox Dr]

You could use a proper blind rivet, instead of pop rivets. Combined with the correct length

 

[KemppiFrog]

Those countersunk rivits look the job. Avdel widely used in the a/c world. At 1/8" the interior bump would not be too big. Back in the 70s I spent a lot of time riviting light a/craft. But usually sent the smallest guy we had down inside to hold the anvil with solid rivits. More recently I assembled an American kit plane. All the wing structure was 1/8" rivited. Couple of thousand.
If the skin is thin, then a dimple tool to form the c/sink would help.
KF

 

[chunkolini]

Looks as though they might do the job.
Just had a look at the avdel website http://www.avdel-global.com/en/products/breakstem-fasteners.html some good animations of how these things work, and a rivet for fixing things into wood. Never heard of that before.
Would blind rivets go in using a standard cheapo pop rivetter?
Blind rivets? have I got this straight, the steel bit left in the workpiece is covered by the back of the rivet. Edit, closed blind rivets have the end covered.
You learn something everyday.

 

[Justme]

Blind rivets go in a blind hole. IE a hole that does not penetrate the rear material. So your solid 5mm bar could be drilled to 3.5mm depth.

 

[Shox Dr]

yup closed blind rivets is the ones you want, the correct length, they will look good on the back, hand pliers are fine. Don't forget you can also get them in Stainless

 

[Shox Dr]

Blind rivets go in a blind hole. IE a hole that does not penetrate the rear material. So your solid 5mm bar could be drilled to 3.5mm depth.

That's new one on me. AFAIK a blind rivet only needs access to one side

 

[chunkolini]

I am not rivetting into the bar, my plan is to have a sheet metal roof section to the body and maybe a kind of floor pan.
The wings will probably be rivetted together and possibly be rivetted onto the open plan body.
The rivets are to a degree a cosmetic exercise, but whatever function they serve they have to look good.
I bet aerospace boys and girls are very fussy.
The customer is a supplier of metal to the industry and wants my 'thing' to showcase his materials.
Could be a way into the corporate art market?

 

[rtbcomp]

That's new one on me. AFAIK a blind rivet only needs access to one side

Me too. I understand "Pop" rivet is a trade name rather than a type of rivet.

 

[Hitch]

That's new one on me. AFAIK a blind rivet only needs access to one side

Same here.

Chunko, i'd say you wanted 'closed end blind rivets' to look half nice.

Theres some rivet about, cant recall what they are called, but they look like the outside of a bind rivet, from both sides, although you do need access to both sides, but just enough to put the second part together.
I shall have a look...


If all else fails, get some peel back rivets, they'll make a feature of them

 

[chunkolini]

I think 'Pop' rivets are the hoovers of the rivetting world.
The ones that look like a blind rivet from both sides would be useful.
I think I will a selection as I wont have any idea of what I am doing until I start. Once, that is the customer gives me the go ahead, but he seemd pretty cool with the idea.

 

[bigbadbugga]

I wonder if you can get a metal version of this type of rivet, would suit your needs perfectly.

http://www.comdir.co.uk/Products.aspx/16205/Rivets/RatchetRivets/

 

[Hitch]

Had a look around, all i can find is either quite long shanked ones, or the sort that go on jeans and leather etc.

This is what i was on about, bit on the large side for your application id say chunko....

 

[bigbadbugga]

Hitch, are these what you are looking for?

http://www.shop4fasteners.co.uk/acatalog/Aluminium_Steel_Sealed_Dome_Head_Rivets.asp