WP20 rating -- without water!

[outofstepper]

Greets gang,
Been doing some digging but can't seem to find a number for this (crazy
question). I'm looking for the max continuous rating of a size 20 water cooled
torch without water in it.

Sound odd?

Most of my welding is done @ about 50-80 amps. I'm considering building
a cooler and only running it when I'm above .. X.. amps.

I like the small size.. and hate swapping torches.
Currently I'm using a 17 and a 26, both air cooled of course, and am looking
for a 1 torch solution.

I was going to buy a 9.. use that an my 17 (since my box is only good
to 160 amps or so).. but if I could pull this all off with one small torch..
gosh that'd be sweet.

 

[outofstepper]

follow up question...
how long do you think a WP9 might last me?
Worst case scenario is AC @ ~ 160 amps.

I think a 9 is only rated to 100 amps AC.. but I don't weld
8 hour shifts.. but I do weld long enough to burn my gentle
little fingers.

 

[hotrodder]

You won't find a rating for water cooled torches used without water as they're not designed to be used 'dry'. It's not just the torch head but the power cable too that's water cooled. The actual conductor in the power line is finer than air cooled torches and is VERY easy to melt- even if it worked fine at low amps you WILL forget to turn the cooler on one day and cook it unless you use it all the time

Air cooled torches typically get uncomfortably hot with AC when used within their amperage ratings. I can't see ~160A AC through a wp9 ending well but i suspect the torch will probably take more than you're hand

FWIW CK torches are rated higher than most others. There are also fuse blocks available to protect water cooled torches but wouldn't be of use for your plan... http://www.ckworldwide.com/fuse_block.htm

 

[Delgado]

I'd also be inclined to a go the aircooled route and get a CK 17 Flexi, although not cheap.I run mine at 150A AC all the time, it does get a bit warm if I'm doing lots of long runs, but it never gets uncomfortably hot. Personally I wouldn't bother with a watercooler for a 160a machine, I think you'd be better off spending your money on something else. If torch size is an issue, the WP20 torches that I've used wern't any smaller than a wp17 torch, in fact IIRC they were a bit bigger and due to the extra hoses a little bit more clunky.

Also, I read that you don't like swapping torches over (me neither), but you could always put quick release gas hose fittings on the machine/gas hose to make it a bit less of a PITA, and easier to swap between a WP9 and WP17/26 when required.

 

[outofstepper]

Thanks guys.

Delgado -- you mean the Flex-Loc with interchangeable heads?
Looks like the FL150 is rated to 150A on both AC&DC @100%.

Anyone in the UK (online) sell these things?

Thanks!

 

[Delgado]

I actually meant the CK-1712RSFFX

Rapid Welding are a UK distributor of CK products and in my experience a good online company to deal with. Here's a link to the torch in question, but bear in mind the price is for just the torch and the power/gas cable which is one peice (the gas flows through the power cable), so depending on your plant you'll probably need an adaptor like this (make sure you get the one with the right size dinse connector for your machine), a trigger switch, switch cover and a cable cover, which all add up.

Edit: Not sure if it's of any use to you as your only dealing with 160a, but browsing through their website, there's also a (very expensive) gas cooled CK trimline torch that is rated to 200a, and as far as I can make out it's effectivley the same size and weight as a 17 but with the extra amp capacity.

Hope this helps!

 

[outofstepper]

Thanks again.
I actually tried to get a flex-loc from CK in the states but ended
up having problems with shipping/customs so that never went through.

Rapid looks like a great resource.

What I'm really after is the smallest torch I can get on this machine
.. not a micro torch though. I'd like to use a WP9 sized head and
cups when I need them.

Now that means breaking down the whole set up and hooking up diff
torch. I'll have to look into quick connects.

I like the flex loc as (it appears) you can simply swap the head.
Spendy I know. And I don't really need to weld with mirrors.

I wonder if a WP9 would screw into the same cable / handle as a 17?
Maybe I could I could make the switch at the torch instead of the machine.

-Tony

 

[derekm]

Greets gang,
Been doing some digging but can't seem to find a number for this (crazy
question). I'm looking for the max continuous rating of a size 20 water cooled
torch without water in it.

Sound odd?

Most of my welding is done @ about 50-80 amps. I'm considering building
a cooler and only running it when I'm above .. X.. amps.
...

why not run it all the time? is the noise or the power? you can make a cooler for a wp20 that needs only 18w at 12 V and creates only 40db of noise from the pump and will only cost £30 to make.

 

[outofstepper]

why not run it all the time? is the noise or the power? you can make a cooler for a wp20 that needs only 18w at 12 V and creates only 40db of noise from the pump and will only cost £30 to make.

Where? how? plans? link?

much appreciated!

 

[Paul G]

Where? how? plans? link?

much appreciated!

I made my water cooler from:-

Car heater matrix (small rad) £5 (from a scrap yard)
Small free standing fan. £12 (from a cut price electrical shop)
Submersible fish tank filter pump. £23 (from a tropical fish center)
Made a stainless tank for the pump to sit in.
Made the case from sheet mild steel with grills both ends.
6mm nylon pipe and push fit connectors to join it all up.
Small bolts & self tappers to hold it together.
Terminal block, wire, and a plug.

Total cost, about £50, and good for 200 amps from my Miller Dynasty.


Cheers,
Paul G

 

[outofstepper]

I've since been doing some homework.
Q: does the fish tank pump provide adequate pressure?
Thats attractive as its: low cost & quiet.

Is it on all of the time or do you have it triggered via the torch?

can it handle the temps?

pictures would be spectacular.

 

[julieanncharters]

I've since been doing some homework.
Q: does the fish tank pump provide adequate pressure?
Thats attractive as its: low cost & quiet.

Is it on all of the time or do you have it triggered via the torch?

can it handle the temps?

pictures would be spectacular.

made mine out of an old scrap stainless tank and old central heatng pump set on full flow number 3 .
works a treat .
take off /flow connection about 2 inch off the bottom of tank to prevent any sediment being drawn into line, return in the top with a bit of antifreeze added cos shed aint heated and help with any corrosion as pump is iron..
mount pump underneath tank so that gravity will self bleed system .
welding ali on 200amps wp18 torch which never gets warm.
just leave it running all the time i'm working in shed.

 

[Paul G]

I've since been doing some homework.
Q: does the fish tank pump provide adequate pressure?
Thats attractive as its: low cost & quiet.

Is it on all of the time or do you have it triggered via the torch?

can it handle the temps?

pictures would be spectacular.

I don't think you need pressure to any great degree. You just need a constant flow.

With constant flow the torch never gets hot so temperature isn't an issue either.
I just switch it on when I switch the welder on, so yes, on all the time.

I can hear it running, but when the fan in the welder comes on that's louder anyway, so drowns out the cooler.

No pic as it's just a box. Inside it's just rad, fan, & tank, so the fan sucks air past the tank and blows it through the rad.

Cheers,
Paul G

 

[dannyp]

I made up some connections a hosepipe to the torch, it's very portable and effective, if oyur only do the odd small job but useign a lot of power for that time it's brilliant but after a while it can make quite a large puddel, but will also show you how much water fllow you need, it's not much at all.

at work we have propper water coolers in the workshop one of them is nice and quiet but th enew one is bloody loud, at my home workshop i have a very cheep and simple watercooler.

old car radiator and a fuel pump from a car, it's quiet the radiator is also the tank and it runs off the 12v battery charger, proper pikey but it keeps the torch on my 250A rtec tig cool and the mig torch on 450A

 

[derekm]

Where? how? plans? link?

much appreciated!

a 12V 7m head pump off ebay (£15) it gives a 0.6l/min but only 40dba of noise ( you cant hear it with the welder on).

The secret is in making an ally tank that has enough area so its a combined radiator and tank and doesnt need a fan.

My tank is a plain 350mm by 350mm by 75mm. It is mounted "on edge" like a h/w radiator. I have no additional radiator or fan. Its just a tank made out of 20g ally.

I use a 200amp AC/DC tig welder, welding 16g and thicker. I don't weld at high current, continiously all day. I tend to weld for an hour then have a cup of tea, leaving the pump running, then do another hour and so on all day. However, even when welding the torch is not on all the time, so the tank evens out the ons and offs and allows the tank to lose the heat easily. Even on big jobs for me the tank doesnt even get warm.

Being a scientific sort of chap I did all the calcs an found out the tank would get never warm, unless I drastically changed how I worked ( became a robot welding 8mm ally day?). I changed the pump since this pic to the one from ebay.

 

[outofstepper]

brilliant!

I was actually considering making my reservoir from coiled or
serpentine copper to do the same thing as your alum tank.. I don't
do 8 hr welds either.. but I like that alum tank idea. saves on some
stainless too!

what is that 12V pump meant for, originally?

-Tony

 

[derekm]

brilliant!

I was actually considering making my reservoir from coiled or
serpentine copper to do the same thing as your alum tank.. I don't
do 8 hr welds either.. but I like that alum tank idea. saves on some
stainless too!

what is that 12V pump meant for, originally?

-Tony

just a general pump
http://cgi.ebay.com/DC-12V-Electric...359?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a603d2237

 

[pedrobedro]

What about caravan water pumps? They run on 12 volts and are cheap and quiet or a 12 volt bilge pump.

 

[Engineer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6YxrGU6Ok Looks a nicely done job.

 

[derekm]

I 've found my tank temp calculator. From the dimensions of the the tank, the water flow, average welding amps it gives the tank temp rise over time and the return water temp rise.
my tank and my pump with a flow 0.5 l/min:

At an average current of 50amps it never gets above 43C (this is the average current over 1 hour include pauses tea breaks etc )

At an average current of 65amps it never gets above 50C (this is the average current over 1 hour include pauses tea breaks etc )

At an average 80amps welding current(this has to be the average over about 20 minutes include pauses so this number is a very high one). the tank takes 1.5 hours to reach 50C from 20C. The outlet temp is around 7c higher than the inlet.

At continous max power of 200Amps it takes 40 minutes of unbroken , welding without a pause to get 50C


average current: multiply every bit of actual welding time, by the number of amps you use, then divide by the total time including pauses. So if you weld for 20seconds at 160amps then move the torch and start welding again 20 seconds later and so on thats average welding current of 80amps.