Any circlip fetishists?

[hotrodder]

This is the application...

As you can see i used a regular internal circlip after attacking it with a die grinder as that was all i could get my mits on at the time. Ideally i'd like a 'light duty' version of a regular circlip but afaik they don't exist i.e. can only find snap rings. While i don't have a problem with snap rings i'm thinking that with a 72mm bore even a light duty flavour is going to be 'strong' enough to increase the chances of someone leaving deep gouges in their shiney ally cap compared to circlips

In many respects a round wire ring would be the way forward but the diameter of the wire used for this bore size will mean adding a little bulk to the cap, granted very little difference but enough to mess with asthetics
Snap ring and circlip seems to be an interchangable term and i'm struggling to find something suitable (unless i buy thousands) with google so any leads?

 

[knoba]

How 'bout something like this...

----

or this (external shown with broken tab)...

----

or these off household LED bulb fittings

----

Personally, I think, if the end-user is going to be an animal about removing the circlip, then they'll have to buy a complete new unit. How often would one want, or need, to remove the insert, anyway?

 

[hotrodder]

It shouldn't need to be taken apart too often but depends on how heavily the engine breathes. The caps themselves account for more than 50% of the cost. I know where you're coming from but i'd prefer to exhaust the easy to fit/remove options before settling for something that results in people stabbing themselves and cursing when trying to change the filter material

The clip in the last pic... Something like that could be perfect if the tangs were in the same plane instead of pointing out at an angle. Any idea what they're called or better yet a DIN standard or something to help the search? round wire clips, snap rings and the like is taking me round in circles and the few times i've stumbled upon something the bore size has been the stumbling block

I take it i'm right in thinking that a light duty internal circlip doesn't exist?

 

[gordon stephenson]

What dia wire do the clips need to be. Maybe some stainless tig wire wound around a mandrel and then slit down to make lots of rings then bend the ends with pliers to suit, if they are around 1/16" dia stainless tig wire might be springy enough to do the job.

 

[hotrodder]

Dia isn't set in stone (neither is the bore size of 72mm but needs to be within a mm or 2) but i don't want to be going thicker/larger dia than the circlip used (2.5mm thick) as it'll involve making the lip of the cap deeper when if anything i want to able to thin it. As far as strength/springyness goes only needs to able withstand engine vibration.

I hadn't even thought of making something suitable as i'm trying to make these faster/simpler to fabricate so i'd rather buy something in. Certainly worth considering if i can't find something suitable off the shelf though

 

[knoba]

If one does a search for "retaining clips" on google's image search, lots of lovely golden goodness comes up (linky)...

Is the old practice of soaking, and washing out, the breather in parafin, or petrol, not a done thing now?

 

[Shox Dr]

I've spent all weekend trying to think of something to use. In times like this I find a walk around Ikea, BnQ ebay etc a help thinking outside the box

 

[knoba]

...before settling for something that results in people stabbing themselves and cursing when trying to change the filter material

...I take it, one isn't going to use a stainless steel scourer, as a filter, then...

I suppose it's just me, but if I bought one, whatever filter the unit came with, would be slung out and replaced by one of them there scrubbers.

 

[Pete.]

I think the circlip you have used is perfect for the job - just widen the groove towards the end to allow it to seat properly. If people can't get the clip out without trashing the finish on the breather then that's their problem. Doesn't look too taxing to me.

 

[Drains]

HR, what size are these clips, and what size is your grove? And how many of these do you get through?

 

[hotrodder]

Had a bit of a eureka moment combined with a but will get that in a mo

I've spent all weekend trying to think of something to use. In times like this I find a walk around Ikea, BnQ ebay etc a help thinking outside the box

Cheers, appreciate the brain racking fella

...I take it, one isn't going to use a stainless steel scourer, as a filter, then...

I suppose it's just me, but if I bought one, whatever filter the unit came with, would be slung out and replaced by one of them there scrubbers.

There's a long and complicated story involving amongst other things an 'off the shelf' double skinned cap that uses wire wool as a filter medium which resulted in an oil mist left on things. Granted the biggest issue with the cap was that it was too restrictive allowing crankcase pressure to build and overcome the oil/air seperator but the guy i made the first cap for used something along the lines of the cotton gauze material used for air filters and the like and i've stuck with that

I think the circlip you have used is perfect for the job - just widen the groove towards the end to allow it to seat properly. If people can't get the clip out without trashing the finish on the breather then that's their problem. Doesn't look too taxing to me.

The only issue with circlip i've used till know is that the beam design means it blocks some of the holes. I'm after something that doesn't need modifying and while it's not really my problem if people can't get a snap ring out without bleeding/gouging things i'd rather come up with something better if i can

HR, what size are these clips, and what size is your grove? And how many of these do you get through?

At the moment a regular DIN472 internal circlip, 72mm bore (full dimensions are in the link). Failed to find a pic but out of the box the beam of circlips this size is significantly wider opposite the opening and partially blocks some of the holes even sitting 'relaxed' at it's free diameter. As Pete pointed out i didn't cut the groove quite as deep as the specs call for as doing so would have ment the lip of the cap needed to be bulkier.

Don't know how many i'm likely to get through, probably not many but enough that i don't want to be modifying circlips

Right the eureka/ moment...

I can make a snap ring/single turn retaining ring easier to install and remove by playing with bore diamer i.e. say the snap ring spec is 72mm bore/housing size, 74.5mm groove dia with a free diameter of 75.5mm... be easier to get 'em in and out if the bore (and maybe even groove diameters) were enlarged closer to their free dia. It's not like they're actually dealing with any axial loads so why not bore the housing to say 73.5?

 

[gavuk]

Why not mill/file a slot so screwdriver/kitchen knife can be used easily to remove the ring?

 

[hotrodder]

Good call. Certainly help until the snap ring is installed with the slot opposite the opening of the snap ring

I know i'm being irrationally fussy, it's just based on witnessing the likes of johnny 5 thumbs struggling/swearing at a simple circlip before firing the thing halfway across the workshop where of course it ends up laying (bang in the centre) under something large and immovable. Almost as comical as the multiple puncture wounds that typically accompany someone(elses) first attempt at aeroquip fittings

 

[gavuk]

we have all seen it and prob done it HR.........i was thinking of rear wheel bearing on my drums ,made easy to remove by a couple of dia/opposed slots ,just right for drifting out the bearing ,no reason for there to be a 360deg lip to retain the ring......i've seen your engines,I know you are fussy

 

[hotrodder]

Not my engine in the gallery but typical of the sort people that'd buy this sort of thing (the last beetle chargecooler job i did... went to the owners workshop to measure/mock up and found him laying under the car polishing the floorpan with autoglym!)

Thinking about it i'm wondering if some of the fussyness regarding these clips is from memories of myself as a teenage Johnny 5 thumbs and Marzocchi forks... either firing that damn round wire clip that retained the air caps across the workshop or stabbing myself in the thumb with a scribe when i caught it on the way out

 

[gavuk]

Keep us posted HR,I'm not too ashamed to admit having chased a ring around the groove a few times...

 

[PhillipM]

Have them send it back for removal and bill them a service charge

Sorted, and you get more beer money.

 

[hotrodder]

I can't believe how hard it is to buy light duty snaprings! According to several 'belts and bearings' type places they don't exist by themselves, you have to buy bearings to get them. A couple of places that carry Spirolox brand and sell in smallish quantities wanted a fiver each Of the UK based manufacturers i called none of them were able to give me a price or min quantity, response of one of them beggars belief... i quote a part # off their site and ask about prices and quanties to get "sorry we haven't got any. Click, brrrr"

Anyway a couple of samples arrived today along with price/quantity info so i roughed out part of a cap and thought i should update the thread...



Sizing everything to 'the specs' for the clip they're a bit of a bitch to remove without marking things, increasing the bore and groove dia closer to the clips free diameter improved things and once i added a clearance notch (as Gav mentioned) there was enough room to grip the end with a pair of circlip pliers. The annular ring that the clip holds in... when i change that (from 72 to 74mm OD) i'm thinking adding a small notch in that will make it easier still so that even johnny 5 thumbs should be able to manage it without making a mess.



They're 1.5mm thick versus 2.5mm for the regular circlip so can thin the lip a little too although the pic doesn't illustrate it that well

£30 per 100 is more like it, min order of 500 though which is a bit much to begin with. I wonder if i can talk 'em into something like selling me 100 for say £60...

Cheers for all the suggestions guys and if anyone knows of somewhere that sells this type of clip in packs of say 50 or 100

 

[gavuk]

Nice job HR....looks much easier to remove

 

[hotrodder]

Cheers but it's more luck than judgement. Free diameter of the snaprings is 75.something, they're supposed to go in a 74.5mm dia groove cut in a 72 dia bore. With 75mm dia groove in a 74 dia bore they're still too strong to be picked out with a finger nail but weak enough that even an animal prying them out with a screwdriver won't make a mess