What inverter to buy???

[BRODTuning]

Hi all, im new here my names Brad im 15 from south wales.
Having 2 weeks off for the easter holidays ive been working at my grandads workshop this last week (albion welding in pontypool south wales).

Ive been doing some general fabrication but then seen my uncle TIG welding and always wanting to learn how to do it i put a mask on and observed for sometime.
He was making a bbq tray out of stainless sheeting using the thermal arc ac/dc inverter tig.
http://www.thewelderswarehouse.com/Welding/info_E03.html

He had tacked it in about 1''sections and handed me the torch and said i bet you cant make the whole pass without blowing through.
To which i proved him wrong,so after some more practice im now after an inverter ac/dc hi freq ,stick etc. etc......i need stick and i need ac as i will be using it for welding aluminium also.
I have a sealey 160amp stick that i am selling to help fund along with my wages.
i would really prefer a new machine as ive never bought a new welder and want something that will last!
all in i will probably have about £300 to spend soon or i can wait and get something that is under £500 yes i know in terms of TIG and inverters this is pennies.
But what machines can you reccomend to me for under £500 and what can you reccomend altogether? any tips etc.

i can weld mig and stick pretty well and have a small amount of tig experience but i will get alot more in the coming months.
What ,machines are out there and what prices are they or what amount of money would you reccomend i spend? as said i want something that will last and is preferably robust as it will be used on site as i plan to go to college studying plant engineering and operations and hopefully will become a fitter so it cant be something thats going to fall apart
sorry if im babbling on as im putting out ideas as they come into my head lol
many thanks
Brad.

 

[BRODTuning]

ive had a quick look at the r-tech range and this is the cheapest ac/dc inverter they do
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Tig_Welder/Tig_Welder_R-Tech_Tig161
would this suit all my needs and does anybody have any experience with the r-tech machines ? i have read one good review on here but whats the general just of these machines ?
many thanks

 

[cumbriasteve]

Welcome to the site Brad, someone with more experience than me with inverters will I am sure be able to answer you soon.

 

[BRODTuning]

Thank you for the welcome steve seems i have alot of saving to do!
as this is whats now taking my fancy!
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Tig_Welder/Tig_Welder_R-Tech_Tig201

 

[FranV8]

I've recently purchased a 161 - great machine and worth the money imo.

I wonder if I'll miss the extra go a 201 would have given, but at least this seems happy on normal sockets, even on an extension lead.

I went through the cheaper eBay options first, for what you want, you do need a machine with some reputation from a supplier with some reputation.

 

[BRODTuning]

hi mate, i looked right through the R-Tech range and i was looking at the 161
but i figured if im going to spend at minimum £780 on an ac/dc inverter then im willing to save for longer and get the 201 for a min of £1015 ....its not as if the machine isnt going to last me and i know with some practice and intuition from my uncle i will be able to get some work with it and hopefully make my money back!

''I wonder if I'll miss the extra go a 201 would have given, but at least this seems happy on normal sockets, even on an extension lead.''

Tbh mate im just willing to pay around £300 more for the 201 as its an investment to me and the 161 still has an ac function iirc ?
when you say it works well on normal sockets and leads ,do you mean it doesnt tend to trip out?

also would the 201 be fine to run on normal household 240v sockets ?
and i also believe its fine to run off a genny
thanks

 

[PTvor]

Having 2 weeks off for the easter holidays ive been working at my grandads workshop this last week (albion welding in pontypool south wales).

Ive been doing some general fabrication but then seen my uncle TIG welding and always wanting to learn how to do it i put a mask on and observed for sometime.
He was making a bbq tray out of stainless sheeting using the thermal arc ac/dc inverter tig.

You may well get useful advice on the pros and cons of this TIG machine against that TIG machine on here, but TIG seems to me a serious business with gas bottles to be hired and so on.

Families are funny things, but with connections like yours I'd be inclined to make a plan and lay it before grandad and be prepared to accept useful suggestions. Having your heart set on an expensive bit of gear with other expenses and complications after, may not be the right way to go.

 

[BRODTuning]

You may well get useful advice on the pros and cons of this TIG machine against that TIG machine on here, but TIG seems to me a serious business with gas bottles to be hired and so on.

Families are funny things, but with connections like yours I'd be inclined to make a plan and lay it before grandad and be prepared to accept useful suggestions. Having your heart set on an expensive bit of gear with other expenses and complications after, may not be the right way to go.

Hi mate ,i must admit.....it is a little awkward ,as it is still my grandads business but after suffering a stroke a few years ago my uncle took on the business and now runs it........ the machine was purchased whilst the business was being run by my uncle....so i dont plan to stick my foot in so to speak.
Plus,having my own equipment is something ive always liked to do and its why i have quite a number of tools for my age whether it be tap and die sets ,socket sets ,drills,grinders whatever ive always liked to call it my own.
It will take a lot of saving for the machine i want but hopefully i wont regret spending the money
but thank you for the advice its much appreciated!
if the situation was different and my grandad was still in charge ,i would have probably followed in his footsteps!

Brad.

 

[PTvor]

Hi mate ,i must admit.....it is a little awkward ,as it is still my grandads business but after suffering a stroke a few years ago my uncle took on the business and now runs it........ the machine was purchased whilst the business was being run by my uncle....so i dont plan to stick my foot in so to speak.
Plus,having my own equipment is something ive always liked to do and its why i have quite a number of tools for my age whether it be tap and die sets ,socket sets ,drills,grinders whatever ive always liked to call it my own.
It will take a lot of saving for the machine i want but hopefully i wont regret spending the money

Well, like I say, families are funny things and you have to feel your way. The uncle and aunt I had who should have been close hated me like poison, especially after I was old enough to realise what they were about and took the p**s out of them. About that time I reduced my very sharp tongued grandmother to tears with sharper words than she could manage and then laughed at her. Afterwards she became very affectionate, and there were no more sharp words, at least to me. Odd things families. We digress.

All I'm saying is that putting a lot of hope, savings, etc into this bit of kit is a big move at your age and it's worth cultivating support where you may be able to get it. For instance, you'd need gas and bits and scrap to practice on, and maybe some paying work, which could help them and you to help things along.

I've also see people more concerned with the specifications of, cameras, hi-fi, astronomical telescopes etc, than what these things were supposed to be helping them to do, and spent fortunes on them. I'm not saying it's the same here, but I'm picking up some vibes like that.,

 

[BRODTuning]

Thanks for the advice mate ,families are definitely strange things ....I do see where your coming from though ,I could get caught up in the spec of a machine rather than focusing on the actual welding .
Gas..well I should be sorted with that as there is a dealer local who will sell bottles of argon or whatever it be for around 32 pound no deposit and no empties back
scrap....there's plenty of it in the workshop and I have always been told help yourself take as much as you need from my uncle in the past ....and work ,I have a full weeks work there next week and I generally work the holidays there ,I dis some nice work this week (well 3 days ) and it was £50 cash in hand which isn't to bad as I also work saturdays at a body shop ,it will take the rest of this year saving most likely but if I want something I put all my energy and time into working to get it ,as said ,much thanks for your advice mate ,you seen a straight talking fellow

 

[FranV8]

For my 2pworth -

Gas - just work out what you're actually getting for £32 - if it's a small bottle with not much pressure you'll be getting through them in no time.

If you're looking at using the machine for work, think realistically what you'll use it for. I'd say most industrial work will tend to be mild steel/stainless, ally whilst useful can be a lot trickier and demanding of gear/current availablity.

Buying a good machine is worth it - it will make your learning better and easier. I see this now when comparing trying to weld years ago with a stick buzzbox I've got, but on the other hand, you want areturn on your investment, so think about whether it's something you really want or not

BUT

Welding machines do have a resale value, so you could sell it on and get some of your outlay back.

What you will probably find, is that the better the machine you buy the more jobs and more options over how to tackle those jobs you will have.

As for 200 amp on a regular supply, I'd give them a ring and talk it through. Seem to be a very helpful company. I've had mine up to 120A so far, no issue, and if my understanding is correct, an oversize inverter machine will mostly only trip/blow the fuse if you're using too high a current, I think with transformer machines if they're oversize they can go with just current inrush when they're turned on. But do check this out.

TIG is a pretty slow process too, so see what jobs will warrant it if it's commercial gain you're ultimately looking to get out of it. Car bodywork can be seen to be better with MIG, but there are two sides to this.

Oh, the 201 - it's got a much better duty cycle too, so that may be important for paid welding work.

Hope this helps - and best wishes for whatever decision you make!

(PS - are you looking for a foot pedal too? Not essential first, but a good thing to learnso you've got more control over the welds)

 

[BRODTuning]

For my 2pworth -

Gas - just work out what you're actually getting for £32 - if it's a small bottle with not much pressure you'll be getting through them in no time.

If you're looking at using the machine for work, think realistically what you'll use it for. I'd say most industrial work will tend to be mild steel/stainless, ally whilst useful can be a lot trickier and demanding of gear/current availablity.

Buying a good machine is worth it - it will make your learning better and easier. I see this now when comparing trying to weld years ago with a stick buzzbox I've got, but on the other hand, you want areturn on your investment, so think about whether it's something you really want or not

BUT

Welding machines do have a resale value, so you could sell it on and get some of your outlay back.

What you will probably find, is that the better the machine you buy the more jobs and more options over how to tackle those jobs you will have.

As for 200 amp on a regular supply, I'd give them a ring and talk it through. Seem to be a very helpful company. I've had mine up to 120A so far, no issue, and if my understanding is correct, an oversize inverter machine will mostly only trip/blow the fuse if you're using too high a current, I think with transformer machines if they're oversize they can go with just current inrush when they're turned on. But do check this out.

TIG is a pretty slow process too, so see what jobs will warrant it if it's commercial gain you're ultimately looking to get out of it. Car bodywork can be seen to be better with MIG, but there are two sides to this.

Oh, the 201 - it's got a much better duty cycle too, so that may be important for paid welding work.

Hope this helps - and best wishes for whatever decision you make!

(PS - are you looking for a foot pedal too? Not essential first, but a good thing to learnso you've got more control over the welds)

Hi mate thanks for the advice,
gas-i will try and find out some info of this gas but if it isnt upto much im sure my uncle could supply me.
mostly i think i would use it for personal use but if there were opourtunities of work with it ,then i would do anything im capable of and try and earn some money!,if there was work to be done with the tig then i think it would be stainless mostly.
I have bought cheap in the past ,and regretted it! hence my enthusiasm to spend a wack on a tig.
and as you say,a good machine will be able to tackle jobs in a better way with ease.
power supply-i will contact r-tech and have a word about this but if the 201 would not run off a normal 240v supply,what options are there ? as our new garage isnt built yet and we could incorporate a sufficient supply if needed.
I have access to two oerlikon migs if needed and will probably buy my own again (regret selling my one).
thanks for your help

Im not sure on the footpedal situation as my uncle doesnt use one that i know of and ive never used one,i do understand they give you alot more control over the weld ,but if i started with just the button and setup the slope appropriately would this compensate? or would i be better off starting with a pedal?
cheers mate

Brad.

 

[BRODTuning]

Had a chat with my uncle today.
Hes now getting his old dc inverter fixed for me and letting me permenantly borrow it.
Im really gratefull as this will help me make a decision in splashing out on a TIG

 

[FranV8]

Glad you've got something sorted. DC will keep you occupied for plenty of time!

The MIG's sound good too, Oerlikon are pretty much one of the best aren't they?

I'll try and answer some of your questions:

power supply-i will contact r-tech and have a word about this but if the 201 would not run off a normal 240v supply,what options are there ? as our new garage isnt built yet and we could incorporate a sufficient supply if needed.

Basically, when you have it wired, you want to specify a good strong power supply to the garage, so they'll use thicker cable from your main fuseboard. Get the right circuit breakers put in for this also (I read somewhere someone had trouble with an RTech machine before, got a new machine from them, found it still did it but it was down to the response time on the trip) - ideally there will be a satellite board in the new garage. Also get them to put in a couple of the higher capacity (I think they're blue) sockets so you can plug in big loads. You'll want extra for when you plug in your big compressor and plasma machine later

I don't think there would be a big cost difference in upgrading to this, most of the cost is normally in the labour for fitting the cables.

Im not sure on the footpedal situation as my uncle doesnt use one that i know of and ive never used one,i do understand they give you alot more control over the weld ,but if i started with just the button and setup the slope appropriately would this compensate? or would i be better off starting with a pedal?

When I first borrowed a machine, it didn't have a footpedal, I was fine with that. I got mine with though, and it gave more control, but then I went back to setting up and downslope (DC, mild steel). Had my first go at ali yesterday though, and I'd say it'd be tricky to get the settings right just setting up and downslope for ali - but it is a totally different beast to weld,

Hope this is useful - remember I'm a total noob to TIG so be careful if taking any of my advice! I'm sure it'll wait a while whilst you see how you get on with the inverter you've obtained.

 

[BRODTuning]

some good info there mate ,my dad can do pretty much anything lol so were building the garage ,ill have a chat with him about wiring.
Im still having a good think but im glad i can have a go with just dc for the time being! ,and im sure i will be happy with just welding mild and stainless.
Ill let you know when i get the machine and how i get on
the migs are really good machines and weld spot on .
thanks for all your advice
Brad.

 

[dannyp]

my advise for wireing up a new garage if it's going to be used as a workshop is.

1) there is no such thing as overkill.

bring a cabel in thats AT LEAST 10mm2 idealy 16mm2 ( be about the same size as what comes into your domestic consumer unit )

2) don't go through the domestic consumer unit unless you have to put an 80 or 100A braker in and go out to the garage with that (helps reduce flashy lights in house )
if you have to go through domestic consumer unit fit the biggest braker possible and use a D type to help prevent trippage.

3) use a split load consumer unit in garage, one side for welders compressors ect the other for the lights and 13a sockets, so if your weler trips the rcd the lights don't go out.

4) use 32A d type brakers with 10mm2 cabel going to 32A blue sockets for welders compressors ect.

more copper = less voltage drop so machenes need less current so work better, cooler and longer

 

[Robotstar5]

my advise for wireing up a new garage if it's going to be used as a workshop is.

1) there is no such thing as overkill.

bring a cabel in thats AT LEAST 10mm2 idealy 16mm2 ( be about the same size as what comes into your domestic consumer unit )

2) don't go through the domestic consumer unit unless you have to put an 80 or 100A braker in and go out to the garage with that (helps reduce flashy lights in house )
if you have to go through domestic consumer unit fit the biggest braker possible and use a D type to help prevent trippage.

3) use a split load consumer unit in garage, one side for welders compressors ect the other for the lights and 13a sockets, so if your weler trips the rcd the lights don't go out.

4) use 32A d type brakers with 10mm2 cabel going to 32A blue sockets for welders compressors ect.

more copper = less voltage drop so machenes need less current so work better, cooler and longer

and remember it's notifiable work!

 

[madkayaker]

my advise for wireing up a new garage if it's going to be used as a workshop is.

1) there is no such thing as overkill.

bring a cabel in thats AT LEAST 10mm2 idealy 16mm2 ( be about the same size as what comes into your domestic consumer unit )

2) don't go through the domestic consumer unit unless you have to put an 80 or 100A braker in and go out to the garage with that (helps reduce flashy lights in house )
if you have to go through domestic consumer unit fit the biggest braker possible and use a D type to help prevent trippage.

3) use a split load consumer unit in garage, one side for welders compressors ect the other for the lights and 13a sockets, so if your weler trips the rcd the lights don't go out.

4) use 32A d type brakers with 10mm2 cabel going to 32A blue sockets for welders compressors ect.

more copper = less voltage drop so machenes need less current so work better, cooler and longer

its not allowed to have circuits in a domestic property that are not covered by an RCD unless the circuits are under the DIRECT control of a competent person e.g. an electrician