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MoreWellie
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Thats a new one on me, Panel wiring I understand. Spreadsheet I understand
Panel wiring spreadsheet, Que?
What are you hoping it will do for you?
Panel wiring spreadsheet, Que?
What are you hoping it will do for you?
Cato
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Some of the German stuff did/does use a spread sheet rather than a schematic or diagram. It just lists out the origin and end point, with columns in between for connector numbers if they're not direct, pin outs at start and finish, wire gauge, colour etc.
Clearer and easier to use than schematics once you're used to them, much quicker to fill out, and you can add notes or updates without making a mess or starting again.
MoreWellie
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I am probably missing the point but that seems the sort of thing I would prefer to roll my own spreadsheet for than start with somebody elses
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Cato
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That sort of thing yes, I just wondered if there was anything already done which I could edit/adapt.
Thanks for the offer, much appreciated, but it's simpler if I just start from scratch as it'd likely take longer to explain it than it would for me to do it.
If you have a schematic file in electronic format, kicad will import it and allow you to export a netlist of wire connections with named endpoints automatically like you ask. It spits out a csv that can be imported into any spreadsheet program. If not, its probably quicker to just do a spreadsheet from scratch unless your good at laying circuits out in kicad.
Kicad is free open source if you do happen to want to try it. I'm using it to design a esp32 based dog boundary fence emitter at the moment , and once the design has a schematic, I use the netlist to do the protoboard test stage, then when I'm happy it physically works as I expect, it will route the traces and make a gerber file of a board and lay out a pcb to match. Not quite the same scenario, but I plan to use it to document new bespoke wiring looms on vehicles in future too, he says polishing his halo, trying to ignore that time when he rewired someones gs1000 with entirely black wire because he only had black wire on the reel. It was ok though as I fault find with meters anyway, and the owner was colourblind
Kicad is free open source if you do happen to want to try it. I'm using it to design a esp32 based dog boundary fence emitter at the moment , and once the design has a schematic, I use the netlist to do the protoboard test stage, then when I'm happy it physically works as I expect, it will route the traces and make a gerber file of a board and lay out a pcb to match. Not quite the same scenario, but I plan to use it to document new bespoke wiring looms on vehicles in future too, he says polishing his halo, trying to ignore that time when he rewired someones gs1000 with entirely black wire because he only had black wire on the reel. It was ok though as I fault find with meters anyway, and the owner was colourblind
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I did all the extra wiring, lights, horns etc. on my last bike in blue tri-rated because I had rolls of the stuff..... trying to ignore that time when he rewired someones gs1000 with entirely black wire because he only had black wire on the reel. It was ok though as I fault find with meters anyway, and the owner was colourblind
Erie Fred
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Loco wiring is all black.....we'd have run out of colors.trying to ignore that time when he rewired someones gs1000 with entirely black wire because he only had black wire on the reel. It was ok though as I fault find with meters anyway, and the owner was colourblind
Boot markers at each end identify the wire.
IIRC an interview with Rod Stewart, said he worked at an alarm company, before he hit it big, wiring the things, and he was colorblind. He apologized if he made any defective ones.....
Farside
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I think the bugger did fire alarms in Glasgow.IIRC an interview with Rod Stewart, said he worked at an alarm company, before he hit it big, wiring the things, and he was colorblind. He apologized if he made any defective ones.....
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When I built control panels, most of the wiring was blue as that was the BS EN 60204 specified colour for DC control circuits, with markers on each end for identification.
I always wondered why machines were filled with blue wiring!
Erie Fred
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Our industrial panels were the same as what you've pictured.
The guys building them explained how other colors were for 120 vac, 90vdc, 0-20ma signals, etc.
Odd fact, our large breakers control circuitry are powered by Edison cells, running 129 vdc.
Ubique
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It's called a 'wiring ladder' and beloved of the Germans - hated by everyone else!
I've got lots of examples on my work PC but no 'template' that I'm aware of.
Cato
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Thank you, I couldn't for the life of me remember what they were called. The first time I came across them was 1989 on the base power generation panels and as the base was a typical Gov't contract it was a right mish-mash. The prime movers were Cummins, Ambac supplied the governors, the heat exchangers were Norwegian, control and distribution panels German etc. The only effective way everything could be pulled together was with text only spread sheets and I found they were very effective and much easier to follow than schematics in 4 or 5 different languages with translations and standardised symbols that were anything but standardised.
I think it's one of those things that suit some people and not others.
Ubique
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I can see the benefit in that case, but for most integrated systems, the visual (and in some cases, interactive) schematics are quicker - although JLR's connector library is similar to what you describe and I do find that very useful, rather than chasing a signal across multiple systems!.
Wire chart (in JLR-speak) for a random BCM connector
Wire chart (in JLR-speak) for a random BCM connector
Cato
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I want to use it for making up custom looms, so it'd be a much condensed version. From the first draft it'll be much easier for me to make changes/additions if everything is set out as a point to point list with the basic descriptions. A schematic with graphics would be quicker and easier for larger, more complex stuff, and also be repeatable, but the stuff I put together is simpler by an order of magnitude and doesn't need to be repeatable.
Terminal/pin number - wire gauge - wire colour - connector number - pin number - wire gauge - wire colour - unit/item/device - terminal/pin number, column for any splices, and so on.
The other thing is I won't need to pay stupid amounts for a subscription to software that I'm only ever going to use about 15% of the features from to create schematics which provide no more information than the list style.
8ob
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Cato
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I have the same, but with a sheet of 2mm thick white plastic glued to the face and I use self-adhesive cable tie tabs stuck wherever needed to hold the cables, and make notes on it with a whiteboard marker. Once the loom's done peel off the tabs, wipe off the notes and it's ready for the next job.My go to for harness wiring is a sheet of ply with nails in it
Bob
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For simple stuff just use excel?
It’s free (online version is, but offline version can be got cheap enough), customisable, future proof and if it’s only you using it there’s no need for multiple users to access it etc. I use it for doing retrofits to panels where I need to know the old terminal designations and the new ones, stuff like that. It doesn’t replace schematics in my job, but it’s an aid to quickly show where the wires are going.
You could knock something up in about 10 mins in excel - if you need the same thing over and over again then save it as a template, if not then just make a different one for each job (or create multiple templates). You’d spend more time customising something else, I think…
Here’s a panel I replaced last year, think there was about 50-60 analogue signals, and around the same digitals - all moved from 5 door mounted controllers to a new panel mounted controller. Used excel to identify existing wires, where they went to originally and where they are going to in the new one. I also added in descriptions, ranges, alarms levels and any other info needed.
For new projects this is usually the first step in defining what’s required, but quite often doesn’t go to the detail of wire numbers and terminations (though they can occasionally do).
I don’t know why but people seem quite dismissive of excel, but for fairly simple stuff like this it’s as good as anything, mainly because of its availability and ease of use. For specific tasks there may be “better” applications, but they usually are tied to specific tasks, require a subscription or extra training, or all 3.
It’s free (online version is, but offline version can be got cheap enough), customisable, future proof and if it’s only you using it there’s no need for multiple users to access it etc. I use it for doing retrofits to panels where I need to know the old terminal designations and the new ones, stuff like that. It doesn’t replace schematics in my job, but it’s an aid to quickly show where the wires are going.
You could knock something up in about 10 mins in excel - if you need the same thing over and over again then save it as a template, if not then just make a different one for each job (or create multiple templates). You’d spend more time customising something else, I think…
Here’s a panel I replaced last year, think there was about 50-60 analogue signals, and around the same digitals - all moved from 5 door mounted controllers to a new panel mounted controller. Used excel to identify existing wires, where they went to originally and where they are going to in the new one. I also added in descriptions, ranges, alarms levels and any other info needed.
For new projects this is usually the first step in defining what’s required, but quite often doesn’t go to the detail of wire numbers and terminations (though they can occasionally do).
I don’t know why but people seem quite dismissive of excel, but for fairly simple stuff like this it’s as good as anything, mainly because of its availability and ease of use. For specific tasks there may be “better” applications, but they usually are tied to specific tasks, require a subscription or extra training, or all 3.
