Van downsizing

[Nick DV]

I think you need to change garage, I think they are playing parts darts at your expense. Diagnostic kit at best is only as good as they bod driving it.

Bob

Absolutely 100%. When I was in the comms game going back 30+ years working on microwave radio and fibre optic systems, we had engineers that would fix faults by turning up on site with a box full of spare circuit boards, PU's, radios etc, and would keep changing bits until the systems worked, (they would often call for back up when it didn't). All the time their diagnostic kit sat in their car! Earned the name of 'Willy nilly part changers' so its been happening for years, and sadly this is reflected in most repair and maintenance businesses these days

 

[Thrashsmith]

I think you need to change garage, I think they are playing parts darts at your expense. Diagnostic kit at best is only as good as the bod driving it.

Bob

Supposedly a commercial vehicle only garage

 

[8ob]

Supposedly a commercial vehicle only garage

From a similar posting a while back .

Some of the truck dealerships take the biscuit. Mentioned this before, mate took his Scania in because of a rough running issue, got a parts darts bill for 10k to sort it, drove it less than a mile down the road and realised it was still running the same as before,many months and a long winded s hitfest later they finally admitted it was ecu fault. They repaired that but wouldn't give him a refund on the rest of it.

Bob

 

[willie.macleod]

I am annoyingly almost back to square one with this. After paying another £650 for diagnostics & to have the EGR valve replaced, the fault light stayed off for a day, only to return the next morning: "check injection system". Needless to say I'm going back to the garage on Monday, but this is becoming a merry go round. Changing sensors didn't solve the problem before having the EGR valve replaced.
Very frustrating because I'd relaxed for 5 minutes thinking I'd just park the van on the drive & get a cheap Fiesta/Jazz size car for the school run.
What sort of litre petrol engine would I need to be able to pull a small/medium size trailer with say 200kg loaded onto it? I like the idea of a Skoda Yeti, but the petrol variants seem to be mainly 1.2L, which doesn't sound like it'd have enough grunt.
On the other end of the scale are 4L petrol Volvos, but they must cost a fortune to run & insure?!

Check injection message on the dash covers a huge array of faults. What sensors have been replaced and were they replaced with genuine parts? If you take it back to whoever did the work see if you can get the actual fault codes for current faults.

 

[Thrashsmith]

Check injection message on the dash covers a huge array of faults. What sensors have been replaced and were they replaced with genuine parts? If you take it back to whoever did the work see if you can get the actual fault codes for current faults.

MAF and MAP sensors replaced. Not sure if they were genuine or not. I think they were removed as replacing them didn't make any improvement.
The mechanic showed me the EGR valve when I picked the van up & it was gunky, so I don't doubt that the valve was at least part of the problem. I replaced an Air Intake sensor a few months ago.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I think you need to change garage, I think they are playing parts darts at your expense. Diagnostic kit at best is only as good as the bod driving it.

Bob

Exactly; just changing sensors is merely "shooting the messenger". The skill comes from understanding what the sensor is telling you.

 

[willie.macleod]

MAF and MAP sensors replaced. Not sure if they were genuine or not. I think they were removed as replacing them didn't make any improvement.
The mechanic showed me the EGR valve when I picked the van up & it was gunky, so I don't doubt that the valve was at least part of the problem. I replaced an Air Intake sensor a few months ago.

They all tend to get very dirty, I'd have thought it would have thrown up check anti pollution system warning as well if it was EGR related. Mechanic should have been able to see from live data if the sensors are showing sensible values, I'd also be looking at the actual injector data - checking injector compensation/trim values for oddities and a leak off test next.

 

[cheb]

My 08 Trafic spent a lot of time telling me it had an inlet system fault. Much time was wasted trying to find out what was causing the warnings. The problem was solved by sorting out the DPF in the inlet system. I never did find out where Renault decided the inlet system stopped and the exhaust system started.

 

[Thrashsmith]

They all tend to get very dirty, I'd have thought it would have thrown up check anti pollution system warning as well if it was EGR related. Mechanic should have been able to see from live data if the sensors are showing sensible values, I'd also be looking at the actual injector data - checking injector compensation/trim values for oddities and a leak off test next.

It did. And the engine warning light. And sluggish acceleration/limited revs. Mechanic cleaned the injectors in November.
I got a code reader today myself for curiosity sakes. This new one seems to be IAT sensor 0096 code, which kinda tallies up with a code read from another garage before Christmas. (0095)
I did actually change that sensor myself for one from Jayar back in Oct, but it was an aftermarket part, not genuine Vauxhall, so maybe it's related to that.
I think the mechanic I use is competent/experienced/honest. He only does vans
I've wiped the code now & will keep an eye on it.

 

[qwakers]

Never fit aftermarket sensors. Ever. They never fix anything.

 

[Munkul]

From a similar posting a while back .

Some of the truck dealerships take the biscuit. Mentioned this before, mate took his Scania in because of a rough running issue, got a parts darts bill for 10k to sort it, drove it less than a mile down the road and realised it was still running the same as before,many months and a long winded s hitfest later they finally admitted it was ecu fault. They repaired that but wouldn't give him a refund on the rest of it.

Bob

We did the same £10k main dealer parts darts with our mercedes tractor unit, eventually we just got rid of it (for 10k!!)
We now have a very good commercial vehicle mechanic, they have their own fleet and their mechanics know how to get stuff done properly.

 

[Smallfry]

On the other end of the scale are 4L petrol Volvos, but they must cost a fortune to run & insure?!

This is the dilemma. There is more to running costs than fuel consumption and insurance.

 

[m_c]

It did. And the engine warning light. And sluggish acceleration/limited revs. Mechanic cleaned the injectors in November.
I got a code reader today myself for curiosity sakes. This new one seems to be IAT sensor 0096 code, which kinda tallies up with a code read from another garage before Christmas. (0095)
I did actually change that sensor myself for one from Jayar back in Oct, but it was an aftermarket part, not genuine Vauxhall, so maybe it's related to that.
I think the mechanic I use is competent/experienced/honest. He only does vans
I've wiped the code now & will keep an eye on it.

If they cleaned the injectors, that shouts cowboy to me.
Common rail injectors don't need cleaned, and if faulty, they need replaced.

1.6 engine?
If so, there was a TSB that covers P0096, as there was an issue with 'deviant' sensors (that term still makes me smile! I'm guessing it was the result of the French to English translator).
Cleaning the sensor was a temporary fix, but if there was sludge in the intercooler, you also had to change the complete breather assembly, as some were allowing too much oil vapour out.

I'm not sure why they'd change anything EGR related if P0096 was the only code stored though.

 

[willie.macleod]

I agree about the injector cleaning above - was the charge for pulling the injectors and doing "something" to them or tipping a bottle of magic potion into the tank? Either way they are a replace job not a clean on the bench. Testing leak off is what I'd expect them to do fairly early in process, definitely before pulling them. Worth pulling the sensor in question and checking contamination, don't suppose the code reader you bought can show you live values so you can check what temp it thinks it is?

 

[Thrashsmith]

I agree about the injector cleaning above - was the charge for pulling the injectors and doing "something" to them or tipping a bottle of magic potion into the tank? Either way they are a replace job not a clean on the bench. Testing leak off is what I'd expect them to do fairly early in process, definitely before pulling them. Worth pulling the sensor in question and checking contamination, don't suppose the code reader you bought can show you live values so you can check what temp it thinks it is?

Just re-read their November invoice & it was cleaning the EGR valves & checking injectors, exhaust flap, turbo, dpf pipework etc. That was to enable a 600 degree regen. I don't know what the error codes were at that point in time.
You guys clearly know far more than I do about all this & I'm already at the very limit of my understanding of what these things are.
I doubt the £17 reader from Euro car parts will do a live temp. That sounds a bit beyond my technical know-how anyway

 

[m_c]

All regens are around 600deg.
I'd be finding a better garage.

 

[Robotstar5]

Absolutely 100%. When I was in the comms game going back 30+ years working on microwave radio and fibre optic systems, we had engineers that would fix faults by turning up on site with a box full of spare circuit boards, PU's, radios etc, and would keep changing bits until the systems worked, (they would often call for back up when it didn't). All the time their diagnostic kit sat in their car! Earned the name of 'Willy nilly part changers' so its been happening for years, and sadly this is reflected in most repair and maintenance businesses these days

We had 3 German (Reiss) welding robots which were difficult to fault find on because Reiss had most of it dealer password protected, I was fault finding on one and had replaced a couple of components when my manager told me to change the brake relay board (I think he was clutching at straws) and eventually had to phone the UK service agent for support, when I ran through what I had done he asked why I had changed the brake relay board I said "peer pressure"

 

[Turbo]

Just re-read their November invoice & it was cleaning the EGR valves & checking injectors, exhaust flap, turbo, dpf pipework etc. That was to enable a 600 degree regen. I don't know what the error codes were at that point in time.
You guys clearly know far more than I do about all this & I'm already at the very limit of my understanding of what these things are.
I doubt the £17 reader from Euro car parts will do a live temp. That sounds a bit beyond my technical know-how anyway

I think by now I would have got the van remapped with a dpf and egr delete. That will bypass a few things that could be causing your issues, the main one being the ill thought out and fickle emissions control system.

 

[premmington]

I think by now I would have got the van remapped with a dpf and egr delete. That will bypass a few things that could be causing your issues, the main one being the ill thought out and fickle emissions control system.

With EV's being in the post for years - no new diesel engines were designed - they just strapped Euro 6 emission kit on Euro 4/5 engines.

Now from April 2024 we have Euro 7 leglislation - not coming into effect until November 2026

 

[willie.macleod]

Just re-read their November invoice & it was cleaning the EGR valves & checking injectors, exhaust flap, turbo, dpf pipework etc. That was to enable a 600 degree regen. I don't know what the error codes were at that point in time.
You guys clearly know far more than I do about all this & I'm already at the very limit of my understanding of what these things are.
I doubt the £17 reader from Euro car parts will do a live temp. That sounds a bit beyond my technical know-how anyway

That sounds a lot better TBH, checking injectors hopefully involved doing aforementioned leak off test and an electrical test. Along with the code you gave it doesn't sound like any of the expensive bits are kaput. Hopefully they will be able to check the sensor values quickly and determine next steps next week.