Starting an engine thats been parked up for 5 years

[Trevorleach]

My 200 hardly does any miles at all these days, diesel is so old it is starting to smell like petrol, drove 20 miles to work the other week, and er it just drove like it always did.

Edit just checked, 4k in the last 11 years.

 

[mtt.tr]

yep they are like that ,,, change the oil if you remember ,,, put water in them when you feel like it , give them a whiff of fuel and off they go

I have been lucky to be fair, also have a 407 2.2hdi with 190k miles

 

[tom2207]

I have been lucky to be fair, also have a 407 2.2hdi with 190k miles

messing aside ,,, as long as you change the oil twice a year it gives most things a fighting chance ,,, oil makes a cheap mechanic

 

[julianf]

The horizontal fuel control pin in the injection pump can stick in also.

It's the one that the "boost" pin works against. It sticks in and won't come back out again, which means that you don't get the increased fueling as the turbo pressure rises.

It's not hugely hard to sort it, but I'm not sure id try with the pump on the vehical.

My 300 clone on the 101 needs it dealing with and it's just a chore (I've done them before also).

5 years isn't that long. So its by no means certain. But if you get it running, on fresh fuel and filters and it's really gutless, look at that.

You can check it easily enough with the IP still on the vehical.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

more power yes ,, but wont stand a cooking like the 200 , bores collapse and go oval if they get a wicked toasting ,,

2 and 300 are same power, 115hp or there abouts. Slightly more for the automatic spec. I cooked my 300 4 times through….. enthusiastic tweaking of the pump. Wrote 2 heads off, needed 17 thou taking off another and melted a hole in the crown of a piston, never had issues with ovality in the bores. Drove from Manchester to John o groats and back with the head literally eating itself, it just got progressively harder to fire up in the morning but still ran. Finally let go 2 days after I got back, on my way to work. Had burnt a groove between two pots.

Snapped a cam belt (cheaper crank pulley has spot welded sides, these break loose and cut the belt) put 4 new pushrods in and a new belt and pulley on the side of the road and pootled home. Drove it like I hated it and it generally came back for more (until I started the tweaking)

Destroyed a gearbox, a diff and a transfer box at a pay and play ( the one thing I swore never to do as it always results in money to spend)

300 is no stronger or weaker than the 200, but there’s always someone that will argue that the 200 is better. I’ve had both, abused them just the same. Neither was any more problematic than the other.

To the op, pull the fuel cut off wire off the pump, spin it over on the key to get a bit of oil circulating. Stick the wire back on and I’ve no doubt she will be away within a few turns. Wouldn’t faff about with changing filters or putting it on a can, if there’s diesel in the tank just throw it over.

I pulled a 200 disco out of a hedge it had been in For 5 years early this year. Dragged it out with the hiab to some harder standing, put a battery on and it fired up in about 20 seconds. Drove it down the lane. Bombproof

 

[gaz1]

@reb78 I'd personally chuck a breaker bar on the crank pulley and check it turns over by hand first. If it does then whack a battery on after checking levels and see how she goes.

If its stuck then debate what you want to do... I know a starter can break stuff free you can't by hand but why risk breaking something.

My genie had seized up but with a 6ft crow bar through the bell housing I got it turning (starter didn't stand a chance, I had tried). Once I got it going with a whiff of easy start I left it run for a good hour or more to bed things in again properly.

same as you, breaker bar but take out the glow plugs put a little oil in or diesel into glow plug ports to oil the rings

when you crank the engine by hand if it turns it will oil up parts if it dosnt diesel can seep enough if left over night and try to crank again

with hand cranking it helps to reoil some parts again as they will be dry so the more you hand crank the better once the engine feels to be moving freely then its use a battery to turn the engine to oil the parts of the engine

 

[bricol]

If it has a timing belt, I'd change it before trying.

I hate to see recommendations to turn by hand. Or on the starter to build oil pressure or to get oil flowing.

While it might do, it doesn't do it fast enough, or high enough. So all the time it's turning, slowly, there is metal to metal contact.

The professional recommendation is to get it fired up as soon as possible, so the oil pump is generating proper flow and pressure as quickly as possible, minimising the metal to metal contact.

My Lancia stood for 7 years. Followed the above recommendation, ran fine.

 

[bricol]

And the idea that starting it regularly is better ? Pants.

Most wear occurs in those first few seconds after starting - so to keep doing it for no reason is pointless and damaging.

And while you might leave it running to "get it warm", you never get the same heat into it as driving it, so you never drive off the condensation, nor boil the water out of the oil. But you will cause more condensation inside as it cools, the same in the gearbox, exhaust system etc.

Leave it well alone until you do need to start it.

 

[sako243]

I hate to see recommendations to turn by hand. Or on the starter to build oil pressure or to get oil flowing.

Just to clarify my recommendation for turning it by hand wasn't in anyway to try and get oil to places. It was simply a quick check to see whether it's seized or not. The approach one might take might change depending on whether it's seized or not.

 

[8ob]

I have found the biggest problems with stood diesels are loose carbon deposits/inlet muck drying out/falling off and getting between the valves/seats, that causes a massive compression drop. Normally sorted with a can of sniff, just to get them to fire, soon clears.

Bob

 

[BrokenBiker]

My usual routine is, try and turn it by hand via the crank pulley, make sure it hasn't seized up, then check it's got oil and have a vague guess at the quality of said oil, fresh fuel and filter, new battery and send it...it's either going to run or it isn't, and if anything is going to go wrong id rather it happens now than after I've given it a full service and wasted 2 bottles of oil

 

[jmp49]

Not brave enough for the dry crank it and send it stuff. If I value a motor I try to prelube it somehow if its been stood a REALLY long time.

I always like to hand crank it with a bar a turn to make sure it actually turns... Some engines you can pull the distributer and spin the pump up manually with a drill.
On some engines I pull the spark or glow plugs and make sure they didnt have compression to put load on the big ends etc and wouldn't try to start until I saw that the pressure came up on the gauge.
I also tend to take cam covers etc off and check that oils actually getting up there, more so with bike engines etc because they're prone to oil gallery plugging when sat and the cams run directly in the head castings with no shells so its a bad day if you dry start one and theres a bit of dirt stopping the oil getting up there.
When I fire up my new to me 200tdi's, because its been a similar timeframe and one of them's been on the engine stand and flushed internally I'm going to prelube them with clean oil in a pump sprayer into a fitting screwed into the 3/4"-16 threaded hole on the oil filter housing that leads into the main gallery, then drain off the excess. It might not be needed, but I'll feel better in myself having done it...

I also start things up that are long term projects when its possible once or twice a year (not always possible...). But I dont just turn it off after a minute then, I leave them running 30 minutes to evict damp etc. I am convinced that doing this has saved engines in projects parked outside for years in gardens etc. Ive got a vw bus camper that lived outside in a garden for 15 years that I occasionally fired up while not having time to work on it, then during the ressurection span it up with no plugs in, then plugs back in, fuel in a can because the tank lines probably rotted out and it sparked up and idled sweetly and drove around the yard happily. Sure the chassis is rotten and needs even more love now, but the engine is lovely still.

 

[tom2207]

2 and 300 are same power, 115hp or there abouts. Slightly more for the automatic spec. I cooked my 300 4 times through….. enthusiastic tweaking of the pump. Wrote 2 heads off, needed 17 thou taking off another and melted a hole in the crown of a piston, never had issues with ovality in the bores. Drove from Manchester to John o groats and back with the head literally eating itself, it just got progressively harder to fire up in the morning but still ran. Finally let go 2 days after I got back, on my way to work. Had burnt a groove between two pots.

Snapped a cam belt (cheaper crank pulley has spot welded sides, these break loose and cut the belt) put 4 new pushrods in and a new belt and pulley on the side of the road and pootled home. Drove it like I hated it and it generally came back for more (until I started the tweaking)

Destroyed a gearbox, a diff and a transfer box at a pay and play ( the one thing I swore never to do as it always results in money to spend)

300 is no stronger or weaker than the 200, but there’s always someone that will argue that the 200 is better. I’ve had both, abused them just the same. Neither was any more problematic than the other.

To the op, pull the fuel cut off wire off the pump, spin it over on the key to get a bit of oil circulating. Stick the wire back on and I’ve no doubt she will be away within a few turns. Wouldn’t faff about with changing filters or putting it on a can, if there’s diesel in the tank just throw it over.

I pulled a 200 disco out of a hedge it had been in For 5 years early this year. Dragged it out with the hiab to some harder standing, put a battery on and it fired up in about 20 seconds. Drove it down the lane. Bombproof

those who argue one is better than the other tends to be those who fix them ,,, the block redesign to make it quieter and easier to manufacture did it no favours , yes front end got easier to work on , but thats about it , heads are no where near as tough , and who really cares where they mount the turbo ,,, Im often amazed at how i manage to find those whos land rovers never rust , always start and have never leaked anything ever , either in or out ,,,,
where do I hear all of this ,,,, usually as its getting driven onto the ramp , enough said.

 

[BrokenBiker]

those who argue one is better than the other tends to be those who fix them ,,, the block redesign to make it quieter and easier to manufacture did it no favours , yes front end got easier to work on , but thats about it , heads are no where near as tough , and who really cares where they mount the turbo ,,, Im often amazed at how i manage to find those whos land rovers never rust , always start and have never leaked anything ever , either in or out ,,,,
where do I hear all of this ,,,, usually as its getting driven onto the ramp , enough said.

I have a land rover with no rust and always starts...it does have an oil leak though...and it's a Freelander that doesn't appear that have seen so much as a wet field let alone been used differently road...my td5 disco was horrendous for not starting, and for leaking every fluid it could think of...ACE fluid, power steering, auto box fluid, brake fluid, engine oil, coolant...usually more than 1 at once too...

 

[tom2207]

Ive just done a yer and a half at spanners in a friends garage , hes a land rover specialist ,,, long story , but Ill pass on that
the number of folk I have given lifts home to in my 107 is outrageous ,,, I could weep for some folk , and I genuinely dont know how the salesmen at land rover sleep at night ,,, most folk on these forums are the hands on practical type and seem t enjoy messing about with their cars ,,, fine . But the number of community care folk and teachers etc that I see who are gutted by a 3500 quid bill for egr problems or 2800 for timing chains and the likes is sad ,,,, people dont research what they are buying ,,, the just believe the marketing . But selling an ingenium powered evoque to someone who only ever does short journeys is a sin. These cars are simply not fit for the job . I truly feel sorry for some of the people Ive seen.

 

[mtt.tr]

those who argue one is better than the other tends to be those who fix them ,,, the block redesign to make it quieter and easier to manufacture did it no favours , yes front end got easier to work on , but thats about it , heads are no where near as tough , and who really cares where they mount the turbo ,,, Im often amazed at how i manage to find those whos land rovers never rust , always start and have never leaked anything ever , either in or out ,,,,
where do I hear all of this ,,,, usually as its getting driven onto the ramp , enough said.

Problem is they are not used for their purposes, mines a work horse. It tows it gets l
Ploughed through hedges.

Also people don't service them sufficiently

 

[BrokenBiker]

Ive just done a yer and a half at spanners in a friends garage , hes a land rover specialist ,,, long story , but Ill pass on that
the number of folk I have given lifts home to in my 107 is outrageous ,,, I could weep for some folk , and I genuinely dont know how the salesmen at land rover sleep at night ,,, most folk on these forums are the hands on practical type and seem t enjoy messing about with their cars ,,, fine . But the number of community care folk and teachers etc that I see who are gutted by a 3500 quid bill for egr problems or 2800 for timing chains and the likes is sad ,,,, people dont research what they are buying ,,, the just believe the marketing . But selling an ingenium powered evoque to someone who only ever does short journeys is a sin. These cars are simply not fit for the job . I truly feel sorry for some of the people Ive seen.

Thankfully my Freelander has already had dpf mapped out, egr blocked off and been serviced regularly if the history is to be believed and from what I can tell there's no reason to believe otherwise.

I wouldn't buy anything with an ingenium engine, too many horror stories for it just to be down to the owners poor decisions when buying.

I do agree though, when someone buys a car they should be asked what an average weeks driving looks like and anyone with short journeys every day should be sold a petrol or electric...

 

[tom2207]

Thankfully my Freelander has already had dpf mapped out, egr blocked off and been serviced regularly if the history is to be believed and from what I can tell there's no reason to believe otherwise.

I wouldn't buy anything with an ingenium engine, too many horror stories for it just to be down to the owners poor decisions when buying.

I do agree though, when someone buys a car they should be asked what an average weeks driving looks like and anyone with short journeys every day should be sold a petrol or electric...

i genuinely feel sorry for folk ,,, decent folk getting stung badly , I have taken so many dpfs out Im probably on the green partys hit list by now .

 

[BrokenBiker]

i genuinely feel sorry for folk ,,, decent folk getting stung badly , I have taken so many dpfs out Im probably on the green partys hit list by now .

Our general manager begged for a new disco as his company car...he had it 4 days before it went back, then 2 weeks after that it went back...then about a month later it went back and they gave him a different one...that lasted 3 months then went back and he now has a hybrid Toyota RAV4

 

[julianf]

Also people don't service them sufficiently

My friend has a td5 defender...

The rear wiper broke. I mentioned the gearbox grease... (not that that will "fix" it)

Anyway, he asked me what grease.

I said "whatever you use on the prop shafts"

...and then remembered his aversion to doing any car maintenance, so followed up by -

"I guess whoever serviced it last night have done them"


He replied -

"Serviced? It gets mot'd"

I managed to confirm that it had never been serviced in the whole time he has owned it.

I've known him about 9 or 10 years, and he had it before I met him.


In that time, however, I do know that it's had at least one oil filter change. At least, I assume they didn't fit his old filter to the new engine.

It's also had two new transfer boxes. So they won't be running on the original oil.

And one new gearbox. So that's that aspect taken care of also.


I did make him check the diffs once. They were full. I didn't realize, at that point, that they were full of the oil it was sold to him with.