Car audio speaker selection?

[ajlelectronics]

Do they still use PMPO in advertising?, I recall back in the days of printed catalogues, Argos etc. where they used PMPO to tempt the unwary into buying apparently powerful systems

The acronym? Isn't mentioned, but we can assume it when we see figures like 400W on a 12V amplifier.

 

[Jackimus]

I was under the impression that treble is directional so not much point having tweeters poked down in the corner of the doors which is why the modern stuff has them up in the top door corners or dash corners, in the parcel shelf it will reflect off the glass, mid range isnt too fussy and base is even less fussy on positioning was my understanding

You are correct, but out of position treble is better than no treble!

 

[Mark 5]

So many-many years ago I got involved in a real heated argument in Dixons, ( remember when they were called that ), between myself and a white shirt manager **** who thought he was a gift---well I don't know what he thought but he tried to lord it over me, it was an argument over HiFi speaker actual wattage output and PMPO.

Failing grey cells won't allow me to remember the full context of the argument.

As I recall he was claiming the system had 120w total sound output, quoting PMPO and I replied " it wasn't 120w then, more like a true 15-18 watt per speaker, clearly he felt/knew I was questioning his gift.

I already knew of over inflated claims, I applied the rule of halving number of each speaker and halving again but never/ don't know how accurate the rule was or how close.

 

[ajlelectronics]

I already knew of over inflated claims, I applied the rule of halving number of each speaker and halving again but never/ don't know how accurate the rule was or how close.

The approximation is that to get the hypothetical RMS, divide by the the number of channels and then divide by two.

 

[Mark 5]

The approximation is that to get the hypothetical RMS, divide by the the number of channels and then divide by two.

Thanks.

 

[Domdom]

Look at a DSP/amp combined. Many have onboard Bluetooth as well.

Speakers. Modern stuff does a lot better than the older kit. Feelart is one brand which seem to defy the laws of physics, DSL are now under new ownership. JBL are decent enough. All of them specialise in making stuff to retro fit to loads of cars.

Power figures are meaningless. It’s more about sensitivity, I.e. SPL out at 1m for 1 watt input. Just find something which physically fits and give it a decent signal.

 

[ajlelectronics]

It’s more about sensitivity, I.e. SPL out at 1m for 1 watt input

This is important, but rarely quoted for car speakers.

 

[tom2207]

I was under the impression that treble is directional so not much point having tweeters poked down in the corner of the doors which is why the modern stuff has them up in the top door corners or dash corners, in the parcel shelf it will reflect off the glass, mid range isnt too fussy and base is even less fussy on positioning was my understanding

thats the way of it ,,, its why anyone whos actually fussy about sound never bothers with rear speakers as it destroys the whole stereo image .. but cars are not an ideal listening situation at the best of times , and rear seat fillers ,,, ie kids or passengers need something to keep them happy , roughly speaking sound under 100hz is thought of ass omnidirectional , while technically thats almost true , it really isnt like that in real life even down to about 40hz your body is sensative to bass direction ,,, and the gap under 40 isnt really worth worrying about , most pro kit has 20hz filters in the electronics , and if its speakers your getting dangerously close t amplifying / playing back square waves and thats only heat ,,, voice coils just glow red for a fraction of a second and never work again ,,, a six inch cone wont reproduce a 20ft wave very well so why bother trying .

 

[tom2207]

This is important, but rarely quoted for car speakers.

not if your buying decent stuff , they are better now at giving specs , but then again its hard to know due to the space your loading cones into , not as important in mids , and can be overlooked totally with tweeters , but its a big factor on mid bass and down

 

[Turbo]

I think you are all straying away from Joes question.

You just want a top quality speaker that fits where the old ones were removed.
As suggested, contact dynamic sounds and get their advice on the largest 3 way good quality speakers that will fit in where the old ones came out. Its not only speaker diameter but also depth you need to consider.
Don't bother with adding an amp unless you are going to fit bigger speakers or components. Those standard small speakers will limit any advantage gained from fitting the amp.
A decent quality head unit and speakers is more than adequate for most ears.
I would suggest fitting some good quality copper speaker wire if you can.

 

[tom2207]

I think you are all straying away from Joes question.

You just want a top quality speaker that fits where the old ones were removed.
As suggested, contact dynamic sounds and get their advice on the largest 3 way good quality speakers that will fit in where the old ones came out. Its not only speaker diameter but also depth you need to consider.
Don't bother with adding an amp unless you are going to fit bigger speakers or components. Those standard small speakers will limit any advantage gained from fitting the amp.
A decent quality head unit and speakers is more than adequate for most ears.
I would suggest fitting some good quality copper speaker wire if you can.

Pioneer , kenwood and Focal from memory all do a direct replacement chart ,,, [ totally disagree on the amp thing , especially with a dsp in it but it depends on what you want to spend] some of the older Blupunt head units can be bought for pennies the removable front ones not quite as far back as tapes but certainly their cd players can. and will suit an old german car

 

[ajlelectronics]

totally disagree on the amp thing

Why, when they are (in general, ie no inverter PSU) no better than the inbuilt PA?

 

[MetalMonkey]

Why, when they are (in general, ie no inverter PSU) no better than the inbuilt PA?

Built in head unit amp is going to be around 18W per channel supplied through the OEM wiring loom.
Decent Amp 150W per channel, supplied with directly with a beefy 4awg cable.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Decent Amp 150W per channel

How? 13.8V into 4R doesn't compute.

 

[tom2207]

Why, when they are (in general, ie no inverter PSU) no better than the inbuilt PA?

because they are not built down to budget or size limitations brought about by din case sizes , they tend to have better converters in them , not limited by oem choices , very few oem things from that era have dsp , most dont even have three band eq . time alignment hadnt been invented etc etc etc

 

[winchman]

I fitted some old stock Blaupunkt separates speakers, midrange and tweeters with crossover, never looked back, so impressed and a bargain so I bought 3 seta for suture use

 

[Turbo]

The car has 2x 4 inch speakers in the dashboard. And 2x rear speakers in the rear parcel shelf. Not sure of the size but probably max 150mm.

Is the amp going to make a noticeable difference going out through relatively small non component speakers?

It's a lot of extra work for little to no gain.

Any quality head unit will more than fill that size of speaker good enough for most folk.

And besides which - you don't really want to drown out that glorious engine and exhaust!

 

[Jackimus]

Is the amp going to make a noticeable difference going out through relatively small non component speakers?

It's a lot of extra work for little to no gain.

Any quality head unit will more than fill that size of speaker good enough for most folk.

And besides which - you don't really want to drown out that glorious engine and exhaust!

Little to no 'gain', heh, get it...? Gain like an amp... This guys sharp as a razor

 

[JOEPRO]

I think you are all straying away from Joes question.

You just want a top quality speaker that fits where the old ones were removed.
As suggested, contact dynamic sounds and get their advice on the largest 3 way good quality speakers that will fit in where the old ones came out. Its not only speaker diameter but also depth you need to consider.
Don't bother with adding an amp unless you are going to fit bigger speakers or components. Those standard small speakers will limit any advantage gained from fitting the amp.
A decent quality head unit and speakers is more than adequate for most ears.
I would suggest fitting some good quality copper speaker wire if you can.

I think this response is what I am thinking. I will contact that company this week and see what they say for budget friendly modern retrofit speaker options for this 190E. I think anything new and modern is going to be a worthwhile improvement over the 1980s stuff

One old speaker -

 

[tom2207]

I think this response is what I am thinking. I will contact that company this week and see what they say for budget friendly modern retrofit speaker options for this 190E. I think anything new and modern is going to be a worthwhile improvement over the 1980s stuff

One old speaker -

View attachment 515246

lol ,, even an old amstrad would be an improvement